(Out of Topic) Do we need a "OUT OF TOPIC" forum?

[SQUIRE]

I think it's an oscillation with no resonance catastrophe in sight.

I can safely say that I have never seen a sentence like that one before!

But could icfu be right - that it's actually a problem of perception and not as big a problem as depicted? After all, OT comments are usually more controversial and tend to linger in the memory longer than the usual 'yellow dot in the corner' type of post.

Do you have any quickie stats of how many threads have rolled off the edge, Hacker? That would be interesting.

[CoMiKe]

Here's my stupid suggestion...

I know there's a hidden betatest or moderation forum (I'm not sure). Well, as I'm not moderator nor betatester, I've never visited that forums.

So, why not adding the TAVERN as one more hidden subforum? I mean, registered users could ask to moderators to be subscribed to that subforum, or even better, let the users subscribe to that subforum using a new profile option: "Let me access the TAVERN: Home of OT Posts" (disabled by default).

This way, unregistered and new registered users will only be able to see the support subforums, so this will look as a support forum for them...

Well, that's all my stupidity for now, see you later.

[SQUIRE]

Here's my stupid suggestion...

NOT stupid at all....in fact quite brilliant, if achievable! Solves at a stroke the possibility of newbies being intimidated, the main support forum losing focus, and (if kept off RSS) stops annoying others.

No one will ever deliberately walk into the pub, but may drop in when following at thread through personal choice. Doesn't fix Christian's chore of reading everything, though.

Well done CoMiKe!

[Hacker]

icfu,

If the thread starter is not able to answer in the thread or open another thread complaining that he doesn't understand he's not worth that we think about his problems.

I was referring to someone else who is looking for a solution to his problem and then finds a thread concerning his problem but the solution is hidden in the middle of page 6 out of 8, between OT posts.

I have already told JackFoo that his observation that OT threads are taking control of the forum is wrong, at that time we had four OT threads (including the thread that complained about threads going OT) and 50 or so ontopic on the first page of the English forum

So you acknowledge that even 4 OT threads can look to a long-time member returning to the forum as the forum being overtaken?

SQUIRE,

Do you have any quickie stats of how many threads have rolled off the edge, Hacker?

I beg your pardon - what do you mean by "rolled off the edge"?

CoMiKe,

why not adding the TAVERN as one more hidden subforum?

Well, in my opinion it would do more bad than good. People would be referring to "the tavern", newbies would ask why there is a hidden subforum and how to access it, and there would still be point 2 - more work for the author. Also, moderators would have to decide what posts to move there and then explain that "these posts have been moved to a hidden subforum".

My suggestion would be to create an independent community forum, that the author doesn't have to control, and where everybody could talk "OT" to his heart's desire.

Hacker (Moderator)

[SQUIRE]

I beg your pardon - what do you mean by "rolled off the edge"?

Sorry, just English idiomatic speech that's all, like "gone beyond the pale". Means "gone beyond the expected boundary", sort of.

My suggestion would be to create an independent community forum, that the author doesn't have to control, and where everybody could talk "OT" to his heart's desire.

Great, (1)how do we do that, and (2)move seamlessly out of the main forum?

[Sheepdog]

2. Let the moderators split each off-topic conversation into a new off-topic thread, which would currently create about 1 off-topic thread for every 5 regular threads (just look at the Recent Rise of Off-Topic Posts), thus making the forum pretty much unreadable.

In the last 5 pages (~250 threads] are 16 OT-Threads but by 5:1 it should have been 41 threads.

So I think this is a good solution.

In addition I like the proposal to use the [OT] in the title of an OT - post to indicate it to RSS feed subscriber. An [OT] in the actual post will inform majki, too, that it's of interest for him.

3. Keep off-topic discussions in a few off-topic threads.

That could make this forum a very silent place.

1. Continue having off-topic discussions (not one-two off-topic posts, but off-topic discussions spanning more than ten posts, as in the recent past, for instance - see "optional") in on-topic threads, efectively spamming them, scaring off newbies and making those threads very difficult to read.

What about the questions of the newbies? How many times there is a:
" Ah fine, that works. But by the way, how can I achieve this and that?" making those threads also OT regarding to the introducing thread title.

And did any of the support team (i.e. us), complain about it? No. We still answer to the best of our knowledge and belief.

I think so far the moderators did a fairly good job. But this merging of threads (without request) is far beyond the acceptable borders.

sheepdog

[icfu]

I was referring to someone else who is looking for a solution to his problem and then finds a thread concerning his problem but the solution is hidden in the middle of page 6 out of 8, between OT posts.

That's easier than finding an OT answer in an OT thread like this I think...

Besides that: How often does it happen that an answer is given at page 5 and the rest is filled with OT? I am facing posting number 3000 and cannot remember any thread like that so I think it occurs very rarely, prove me wrong!
I sincerely doubt that there are users searching and trying to find an answer on page 5, 99% will stop when there is no answer in page 1 and create a new posting, that's why the first 10 matches in Google are so important...

So you acknowledge that even 4 OT threads can look to a long-time member returning to the forum as the forum being overtaken?

Nope, I acknowledge that (returning) forum members which are not able to tolerate such a low rate of OT threads – they are even marked [OT] for God's sake, so why do people click on them if they are not interested? – have no respect for communication needs of actively posting forum members.

I repeat majki's words and agree wholeheartedly:
No fun => no work!

Icfu

[Hacker]

SQUIRE,

Sorry, just English idiomatic speech that's all, like "gone beyond the pale". Means "gone beyond the expected boundary", sort of.

Well, I understood that, but I am still not sure what you are asking. If you are asking if I have any statistics about how many regular threads have been "degraded" by OT posts, then the answer is no, I don't have any, except for an example - the second page of the quite useful (at least for non-regular visitors) Are there plans for TC V7 thread consisted mostly of posts containing funny and even funnier alternatives to the word "optional".

Sheepdog,

In the last 5 pages (~250 threads] are 16 OT-Threads but by 5:1 it should have been 41 threads.

I wrote "would make". The moderators did not split every OT post into an OT thread. I was rather describing a situation that could arise in case the amount of OT posts will keep rising.

That could make this forum a very silent place.

Hmm, it has worked fine for almost three years.

How many times there is a:
" Ah fine, that works. But by the way, how can I achieve this and that?" making those threads also OT regarding to the introducing thread title.

They are split to new threads. As the topic concerns TC, I don't see a problem. What are you trying to point at?

icfu,

I am facing posting number 3000 and cannot remember any thread like that so I think it occurs very rarely, prove me wrong!

Yes, you are right, the moderators have been doing a good job at keeping the threads clean.
Sure it happens rarely - as I said to Sheepdog, I am referring to a situation that could arise if the pace at which OT posts are posted keeps rising.

No fun => no work!

Do you really not think that the ratio of OT/T posts is getting higher than it has been for a long time?

Hacker (Moderator)

[icfu]

Here is my in-depth-analysis:
Amount of OT postings in the past month: raised
My amount of fun before merging: raised
My amount of fun after merging: below zero, I think I will jump out of the window if it continues like that
Amount of ontopic postings: lowered (looks like everything has been said because we are facing TC 7 and no features will be implemented anymore which means that ontopic discussions will be buried in the archive anyway)
Amount of complainers: raised (it's cold outside, people are in a bad mood, will be better in spring)
Amount of newbies reading TC help and search the forum before asking: ~0
Amount of unsolved questions by TC newbies: ~0

To sum it up:
We don't have any problem with OT threads.

Icfu

[Sheepdog]

Amount of OT postings in the past month: raised
My amount of fun before merging: raised
Amount of ontopic postings: lowered (looks like everything has been said because we are facing TC 7 and no features will be implemented anymore which means that ontopic discussions will be buried in the archive anyway)
Amount of complainers: raised (it's cold outside, people are in a bad mood)
Amount of newbies reading TC help and search the forum before asking: ~0
Amount of unsolved questions by TC newbies: ~0

Confirmed.

My amount of fun after merging: below zero,

Confirmed.

I think I will jump out of the window if it continues like that

Not Confirmed.
Not my faivoured sort of suicide. Too risky (paraplegia etc.).

We don't have any problem with OT threads.

Confirmed.

sheepdog

[SQUIRE]

2 icfu & sheepdog:

I was about to write a summary of the discussion and try to draw some conclusions, but now I won't bother. You've said it all, bravo! ROFLMAO


And now, let's go completely mad and wildly OT as it's approaching the first day of the Lunar New Year (29th Jan 2006):

'HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR' to our far eastern friends

or 'Kung Hei Fatt Choy' if you're Cantonese

or 'Chuc Mung Nam Moi' if you're Vietnamese

(apologies if I got the last one wrong, been a long while since I last visited there).

Welcome to the Year of the FIRE DOG!

Sheepdog, BlackDog, now is the time to buy your lottery tickets. Good luck!

[Dieder]

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/2006/01/25/hund-wurst-hotdog-vietnam/hund-wurst-hotdog-vietnam.html

[Sheepdog]

Sheepdog, BlackDog, now is the time to buy your lottery tickets. Good luck!

Unfortunately my nick is misleading you. I'm a Metal Buffalo and a Taurus. But it's the year of my son. Maybe he's going to take over.

BTW a Happy New Year.

sheepdog

[Hacker]

[mod]The "turn-off-able" posts have been moved into a separate thread - [OT] English word for "turn-off-able".

Hacker (Moderator)[/mod]

[majkinetor !]

So ?

SOOOOOOO


After all this conversation the only thing I see after the weekend is OT moderation inside [OT] topic... well, you have to be a genious to achive THAT.

I expected AT LEAST words like... "we are working on a problem" or something similar.... but no.... things are silently discused on mederators forum, without any noise that we can hear.

Here is my in-depth-analysis:....

At least, somebody is serious !

An [OT] in the actual post will inform majki, too, that it's of interest for him.

Thank you ! You are a friend.

How many times there is a: " Ah fine, that works. But by the way, how can I achieve this and that?" making those threads also OT regarding to the introducing thread title.

They are split to new threads. As the topic concerns TC, I don't see a problem. What are you trying to point at?

Yes, you don't see a problem, because you are an robot ! Non robots see the problem because they are not limited with final set of alghoritms. Let me put it in the way your species can understand:

TC is not alone in this universe, and also, people doesn't want to use it alone, despited the Total in name. It is A FILE MANAGER. And file managers are used in combination with mass of different programs. So, there is that big [OT] subgroup regarding 3thd party tools help that is logical extension to TC use. Another (smaller) [OT] group represent various other ad-hoc questions and solutions which are not generaly conected to TC in anyones view and I consider them product of entropy which exist in all scales in our lifes. Fighting against entropy is sword with 2 sharps ! You may sucede in that, for the short time, but no telling what will emerge as a consequence of that act.

So, robot, you see, it is all about Chaos Theory. Deterministic chaos is what lead us here and it will not stop with your ignorance... it will change its form only in something which may not be so bright in the future.

But... that's just majkinetor... don't read this... it is really stupid philosphy. He post shit like this all the time....

----

Great, (1)how do we do that, and (2)move seamlessly out of the main forum?

(1)The TAVERN, remember ? There should be yet another moderator for it.
(2)The same way you do all the time....spliting

IIRC, the main problem here is that Author don't want to read and be responsible for bunch of OT topics... So, he can make anouncement that he is not responsible for the TAVERN! Moderators of the tavern can be in charge for anything else (worez, spam...) .... I am sure we can find someone we can trust....

I consider ignorance of the FREE WILL OF THE MEMEBERS OF THIS COMUNITY as an INSULT. This comunity is like this because of its members, not because of the Author. TC is much bigger then Ghisler. He was sole instrument of creation and nothing more... even the idea was stolen from Norton. After few years of work on WC its developement was in large measure dictated by its users sugesstions and wishes. So, at the and, TC is like this because of some of its users which are genraly people on this forum...

If you are not able to respect us, after so many years, then you deserve some bad things in your life....