Exclamation mark on hid/sys items is okay but not by default

[Lefteous]

It's okay to provide an appearance similar to the old behavior for nostalgics but do we really need to see this by default? For me it's a contradiction to display an icon ghosted and then put an exclamation mark on it like 'don't miss the info it has a hidden/system attr.'.

[MVV]

I've tried new ShowHiddenSystemOverlay option of b9:

I'm pretty sure that overlay icon should mean that exclamation mark will be drawn over original file icon. And, when the option is disabled, one may expect to get rid of exclamation marks... However what I can see (tested with IconLib=%COMMANDER_EXE%):
1. When enabled, I see !'s over the same icons that were in previous versions, i.e. hidden applications still have blank file icons with !'s and no !'s are shown over custom folder icons (that were set via Desktop.ini).
2. When disabled, it behaves just like in older versions, with !'s over standard folder icons and blank file icons (that are used instead of application icons), and with no !'s over folders with custom icons.
3. As you have mentioned, there is no way to disable !'s at all so perhaps third option state is really reguired (do not show at all, show as it was, show over application icons or custom folder icons or whatever else) since there is an option to show dimmed icons even with icon library.

[Lefteous]

2MVV
Are you kidding? When using the old icons the exclamation mark is part of the icon itself - not an overlay. So not really a surprise that the settings has no effect in this case.

[MVV]

I know that it is a part of these icons, but I think it is time to switch to overlay icon if TC will be able to add overlay !'s anyway. If TC can draw overlay !'s over custom folder icons and application icons, why can't it do the same when using icon library? The only two icons with drawn !'s have equivalents w/o !'s so it is not a problem to get rid of drawn !'s.

[petermad]

When using IconLib=%COMMANDER_EXE% and enabeling exclamation mark there is actually an exclamation mark over the folder icon that already has han exclamation mark (built in) - you can se that the exclamation mark is a bit brighter (more contrast) when exclamation mark is enabled.

[Lefteous]

2MVV

If TC can draw overlay !'s over custom folder icons and application icons, why can't it do the same when using icon library?

I guess it does you just don't see it when using the internal iconlib. The exclamation mark is drawn on top of the exclamation mark which is part of the icon. For many iconlibs this change means they need to be updated as they have some hidden/sys indicator included in the icon - e.g.The fatcow iconlib uses a warning icon which looks totally weird combined with the exclamation mark.

[MVV]

I see that TC draws overlay !'s over internal icons for hidden files/folders (overlay !'s have white borders so it is easy to notice them), but TC doesn't draw overlay !'s over any other icons:
- all hidden executables or icon files have these 'hidden blank file' icons while they could have their own icons with overlay !'s - just like TC does w/o using icon library;
- hidden folders with custom icons (e.g. icons set via Desktop.ini) don't have any !'s at all regardless of the option but again TC could draw overlay !'s over such icons - just like it does w/o using icon library.

And, when overlay !'s are enabled for icon library, there is no need in using icon library's hidden file/folder icon, overlay icons may be drawn just over normal icons.

I hope my point is clear now.

So,
- with ShowHiddenSystemOverlay=0 TC shouldn't draw any !'s over normal file/folder icons (with or without icon library), i.e. it should ignore library icons for hidden files/folders (when one wants to use dimming instead);
- with ShowHiddenSystemOverlay=1 TC should draw overlay !'s over normal file/folder icons (with icon library) and draw overlay !'s over hidden file/folder icons as it does now (w/o icon library) - as it does now;
- with ShowHiddenSystemOverlay=2 TC should always draw overlay !'s over normal file/folder icons and ignore library icons for hidden files/folders.

And regarding initial post suggestion, I agree that if TC uses system icons by default, it should use dimming instead of !'s by default too.

[ghisler(Author)]

Exclamation mark overlays and dimmed icons for hidden files are mainly meant for using with the new icons from Explorer. Therefore these two are enabled by default ONLY when using the new icons. When using iconlib= in the wincmd.ini, the two new options are disabled by default. For now I have enabled both features to check how users like them.

In the final version, I want to enable either the dimmed hidden icons or the exclamation marks by default, but most probably not both. The dimmed icons are closer to what the Explorer shows, and the exclamation marks are closer to older TC versions.

[MVV]

I've enabled both and it looks nice with iconlib, if TC only could show real custom folders icons and application icons... or maybe I would be happy with just custom folder icon w/o iconlib...

[ghisler(Author)]

Sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean with "real custom folders icons"?

[MVV]

ghisler(Author),
I mean that TC can't show custom folder icons with !'s when iconlib is used (in 9.0b9 just custom icon is displayed w/o !), and TC can't show icons for applications with !'s when iconlib is used.

[ghisler(Author)]

Yes, that's somehow a legacy mode from TC 8.x, where this wasn't possible either. I have now added a checkbox where users can turn these '!' on and off, but there would actually be 4 modes. I don't know how I should solve this without pissing off another group of users:
1. Mode like TC 8.51 (currently '!' option unchecked)
2. Mode where '!' is overlayed (currently '!' option checked)
3. Mode where '!' is not overlayed, and also not displayed using standard icons
4. Mode where '!' is overlayed over EXE icons and non-standard folder icons

I really want to limit this to 2 options in the settings, otherwise people will not understand it at all.

My suggestion would be:

When using internal icons switch, use these two modes:
1. "!" disabled: Like TC 8.52, but "!" NOT shown on files/folders: Don't use the icons with ! overlay!
2. "!" enabled: Show "!" overlay on all icons

When using iconlib= option, use these two modes:
1. "!" disabled: Like TC 8.52, and show "!" on files/folders
2. "!" enabled: Show "!" overlay on all icons (same as without iconlib, because checking this option will remove iconlib= and add it as iconlib.bak).

[Lefteous]

Some remarks to make it not to complicated:

- The internal iconlib should not contain overlays
- Compatible iconlib should not use overlays (use same version information approach as for cmdlibs)
- I don't see why there should be a difference on which filetypes an overlay is displayed or not
- There should be a way to provide a custom overlay

[petermad]

My ten cents:

If "Show default &folder/file icons from Explorer" is disabled and
"Show '!' on hidden/s&ystem" is disabled then nothing should be shown on hideen/system icons (unlike TC 8,52)

If "Show default &folder/file icons from Explorer" is disabled and
"Show '!' on hidden/s&ystem" is enabled then overlay "!" should be shown on all icons - also custom icons (from fx. Desktop.ini)

If "Show default &folder/file icons from Explorer" is enabled and
"Show '!' on hidden/s&ystem" is disabled then nothing should be shown on hideen/system icons (as it is currently in TC9b10).

If "Show default &folder/file icons from Explorer" is enabled and
"Show '!' on hidden/s&ystem" is enabled then overlay "!" should be shown on all icons (as it is currently in TC9b10).

In other words it should work the same whether or not "Show default &folder/file icons from Explorer" is enabled, and when disabled the icons from TC 8.52 that has exclamation marks should not be used any more - they should only use ovelayed "'!". It will work fine with &COMMANDER_EXE% as iconlib, but maybe it could give problems with other iconlibs where hidden/system icons are not a spinoff of the not system/hidden icons.

[fenix_productions]

I have strange bug with files:
http://www.fenixproductions.pl/files/tc/tc9b10/overlay-bug.png

Show ! checked.
Dimmed: OFF

I use my own custom icons and it seems I have exclamation mark moved by 1 or 2 pixels.

If overlay is supposed to work TC shouldn't use "exclamation icon" and draw on it but rather just draw on standard file icon.