Button-bars as Menus : Missing “Open” icons etc. …

[Clo]

All

Hello !

• I tested the bars as menu about THIS THREAD, but the topic was different of my try, so I report the results of that I performed below.

• It's more obvious to reproduce with (at least) three bars and the icon I set for each current one, different with a yellow tool
(clicking it, one opens the config. box for that bar, very convenient).
Actually, I open the menus via Shift+Click on each non-current bar-icon.
- You can see on the pictures below that this opens the “Shift+click”_ed bar, but there is a mismatch when looking at the bar itself
(when the menu doesn't hide it), the bar-icons on the bar itself don't reflect the change !
• Thus, IT SEEMS that we get wrong menus, while they aren't since the current bar has changed (it isn't the one shown on the button-bar) :

All bar-buttons, bar 1 is current

Menu with bar 1 as “current”

Menu with bar 2 as “current”

Menu with bar 3 as “current”

• The real current bar is indeed the one of the Menu.

• However, there is also a bug I guess, since an icon for a bar to open is missing on two menus… :|

I missed this because I don't use the menus commonly, the buttons themselves are sufficient to me…

• Whether somebody would get my *.bar files to dig deeper in that issue, please just ask for.
I can't display them here (even as MIME), it's too long.
- FI : Not any environment variable is used, only full paths to the *.bar files, all set directly in the TC folder root.

KR
Claude
Clo

[ghisler(Author)]

Sorry, I don't understand your report.
Can you give me step by step instructions and a sample .bar file to reproduce your problem?

[Clo]

ghisler(Author)

Good evening,

Sorry, I don't understand your report. …

• That seems obvious, and like the title says…

• To sum up :

1. When starting TC, you get the bars icons as shown on the IMAGE “A”, bar 1 (default) is current, of course.
- In that situation, if you Shift+Click the icon 2, close the menu, then Shift+Click the icon 3 successively, the menus are corrects,
all icons are shown like on the button-bar itself.
- Example : IMAGE “B”

2. BUT : When the bar 2 is the current on the button-bar and you Shift+Click the icon 1, the icon to open the bar 2 is missing on the menu,
like shown on the IMAGE “C”.

3. Same issue when icon 2 has been Shift+Click_ed and is current, the icon to open the bar 3 is missing, like on the IMAGE “D”

4. When the bar 2 is current on the button-bar and that you Shift+Click the bar 3 icon, then the menu is wrong in another way,
like one can see on the IMAGE “E”.

• I repeat : I use such bars layouts for years, that works fine with the button-bars themselves.
- The look of the bar when a menu is opened (new situation of the bar-buttons not reflected) isn't the point really, despite it's confusing.
- The hitch is the wrong and missing icons on the menus.

• My *.bar files are available HERE as a RAR archive…and all icons too (see from the TC page of my Web site).

VG
Claude
Clo

[MVV]

Clo,
This is a feature. TC hides from menus items pointing to bar-files used to open current menu.

E.g. if you have Default.bar active and add a button to open bar as menu for Default.bar file, you won't see there Default.bar button. If you open another bar as menu from Default.bar you won't see there Default.bar button also. If you open one bar as menu, from it you open second bar as menu, and it has Default.bar button, TC hides it also.

BTW, it is comfortable. E.g. I have default bar and some subbars that I use as menus. Also I have on that bars button to return to main bar after I tweak this subbar. And I don't need button for main bar in menus for subbars. Also TC don't show separators if it is at the top pf menu, so if you have button to return to main bar and a separator after it, you just won't see them. Nice?

[Clo]

2MVV

Hello !

• Sorry, but a wrong shown icon and missing ones to OPEN other available bars aren't features…

- Please, read again my messages and watch the images carefully, considering that I use an icon to show the current bar…
- Again, it's OK using the bars “as is”, anybody will expect to get the same behaviour and capabilities with menus.
- That's true only on the image B, following the mentioned handling.
- Aside, I suspect the current implementation based on the hierarchy of bars to cause that problem.
- And it isn't comfortable at all for me, I use mainly the buttons on the bar and the mouse.
A case already discussed i.e. HERE and THERE…

 KR
Claude
Clo

[MVV]

Sorry, I can't unserstand your images and what exactly you mean. Perhaps bar-files would help. BTW, if you pack them to archive, MIME encoded text will be much smaller. Also you may remove all other buttons to reduce size of bar files.

[Clo]

2MVV

Again…

…BTW, if you pack them to archive, MIME encoded text will be much smaller.

• I know, I did so many times here in the past…
- But it's simpler to just download and unpack the RAR (3.3 KiB only), then view the files from…
- What can't you understand ? The French strings of the menus items ?
- Sorry, TC makes them from the info-texts, an here all are in French…
¤ Ouvrir barre N… = Open bar # N…
¤ Configurer barre n… en cours = Configure current bar #n… (icon with tool when no bug)
- All notes are in English and don't care about the “Seems wrong…” ones, it's just to show the mismatch between the menus
and the bar itself (when visible), something which could confuse the newbies.

 KR
Claude
Clo

[karlchen]

Hi, Clo. Hi, guys.

As MVV has explained before and as has been discussed and explained in this thread, Back Button does'nt dissappear always in Menu View:

For all who have ticked the [X] Show as menu option for their sub-bars, it works like this:

• You have got a button bar e.g. named "main.bar".
• "Main.bar" holds buttons which will launch sub-bars e.g. named "subbar1.bar" and "subbar2.bar".
• Both buttons have been configured to show the sub-bars as menus.
• "subbar1.bar" and "subbar2.bar" each hold a button which points back to Main.bar.
• Inside Main.bar, you click on the button for "subbar1.bar". "subbar1.bar" will be opened as a popup menu right below "Main.bar". As "Main.bar" is still visibile, the button inside "subbar1.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will not be displayed.
• Inside Main.bar, you click on the button for "subbar2.bar". "subbar2.bar" will be opened as a popup menu right below "Main.bar". As "Main.bar" is still visibile, the button inside "subbar2.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will not be displayed.
• Inside Main.bar, you shift-click on the button for "subbar1.bar". "subbar1.bar" will be opened as a button bar. "Main.bar" is no longer visibile. The button inside "subbar1.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will be displayed.
• Inside Main.bar, you shift-click on the button for "subbar2.bar". "subbar2.bar" will be opened as a button bar. "Main.bar" is no longer visibile. The button inside "subbar2.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will be displayed.

For all who have not ticked the [X] Show as menu option for their sub-bars, it works like explained further down.

Either way, MVV is absolutely right. All this is by design: In menu view mode, buttons inside the sub-bars (displayed as menus) will be hidden provided they point back to the buttonbar which opened the sub-bar.

Or in other words: If the son has got a button which points back to his father, T.C. will hide this button in menu view mode.

Kind regards,
Karl
--
P.S.:
Still my question asked in the other thread as well applies: Can all this be found inside the T.C. helpfile?

[Clo]

2karlchen

Hello Karl !

…Both buttons have been configured to show the sub-bars as menus…

• NO !
• Did you read my messages and watch the pics really ?
- The bar-buttons -ALL- have the box you quote UNTICKED.
- That I get is incoherent with regard to the layout of my bars.
- And one important point : To me, all bars are equal bars, not sub_thingies,
I mean when using them from their buttons, that I do always.

…Can all this be found inside the T.C. helpfile?

• There's almost nothing about that in the Help, a few more in the Tutos (the OPENBAR issue is documented).
- I will not add anything as long as the using as menu with bars in a circular call (fore and back)
with a current bar icon added -like I do- will work like currently. So there !

 VG
Claude
Clo

[MVV]

I created 3 bars: T1, T2, T3. Each bar have 3 buttons - for opening bars T1, T2, T3. In each bar I set active bar icon to another one to distinguish.

My observation doesn't change my opinion:
1. When T1 is active, all three buttons after Shift+click show me menu with T2 and T3 - i.e. T1 is hidden as active.
2. When T2 is active, all three buttons on Shift+click show menu with T1 and T3 - i.e. T2 is hidden.
3. Same for T3 active, I see menu with T1 and T2.

Please make screenshots of each 3 bars when each of them is active (or describe all 9 situations) if you disagree with my experiment.

[karlchen]

Hi, Claude.

Sorry. My mistake.

I should have explicitly stated that my previous post was not meant to explain what is happening on your particular system, but that it was meant to sum up how the T.C. sub-bar modes work (menu mode vs. bar mode).

By the way, as you have not ticked the [_] Show as menu option for your sub-bars, all you have to do is to replace "click" by "shift-click" and vice versa "shift-click" by "click" in my previous post. The rest still applies.

So for all who like you have not ticked the [_] Show as menu option for their sub-bars, it works like this:

• You have got a button bar e.g. named "main.bar".
• "Main.bar" holds buttons which will launch sub-bars e.g. named "subbar1.bar" and "subbar2.bar".
• Both buttons have not been configured to show the sub-bars as menus.
• "subbar1.bar" and "subbar2.bar" each hold a button which points back to Main.bar.
• Inside Main.bar, you shift-click on the button for "subbar1.bar". "subbar1.bar" will be opened as a popup menu right below "Main.bar". As "Main.bar" is still visibile, the button inside "subbar1.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will not be displayed.
• Inside Main.bar, you shift-click on the button for "subbar2.bar". "subbar2.bar" will be opened as a popup menu right below "Main.bar". As "Main.bar" is still visibile, the button inside "subbar2.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will not be displayed.
• Inside Main.bar, you click on the button for "subbar1.bar". "subbar1.bar" will be opened as a button bar. "Main.bar" is no longer visibile. The button inside "subbar1.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will be displayed.
• Inside Main.bar, you click on the button for "subbar2.bar". "subbar2.bar" will be opened as a button bar. "Main.bar" is no longer visibile. The button inside "subbar2.bar" which points back to "Main.bar" will be displayed.

Kind regards,
Karl

[karlchen]

Hi, Claude.

- The bar-buttons -ALL- have the box you quote UNTICKED.
[...]
- And one important point : To me, all bars are equal bars, not sub_thingies,

As soon as you shift-click on the button that opens another bar-file, this bar-file is treated as a sub-bar or rather as a sub-menu. As long as you simply click on such a button the selected buttonbar will (temporarily) replace the buttonbar which launched it.

I wonder whether crosslinking all the buttonbars with one another and the concept of opening another buttonbar as a sub-menu of the current buttonbar do not go together too well?

Kind regards,
Karl

[Clo]

2karlchen

Hello Karl !

• But in which language might I try to explain that is buggy there ? But yet, even my grandson (6 today) could get it !

- In a nutshell :

¤ The flawless behaviour that I get with the buttons themselves for each active¦current bar :

BAR 1

BAR 2

BAR 3

might be mirrored when any bar is opened as a menu via Shift+Click, and it is not !

• On the images C - D - E above, that's obvious…
Pause…

VG
Claude
Clo

[karlchen]

Hello, Claude.

Sorry it has taken so much time. Yet, before writing an answer I wanted to check your bar-files and see myself what happens if
+ a buttonbar is opened normally (as yet another buttonbar)
+ a buttonbar is opened as a menu (the calling buttonbar still active in this case).

Summary in Advance:

As will be illustrated further down, you are launching the exact opposite complaint which HBB launched in his thread Back Button doesn't dissappear always in Menu View:
He complained because he suspected that T.C. might not consistently hide buttons pointing to the active buttonbar when another buttonbar has been opened as a menu.
You complain, because T.C. consistently hides those buttons of a buttonbar in menu view which point back to the parent buttonbar which opened the child buttonbar as a menu.
In short words, the issue reported in this thread has been covered by the other thread already: Back Button doesn't dissappear always in Menu View.
It seems a bit as if you refuse to accept that the behaviour which you see by buttonbars launched as menus is by Total Commander design.


Preparations

In order to reproduce your reports, I took your bar-files. Before I could use them on my machine, I had to apply a few minor modifications, however:

• The bar-files held quite a few buttons which were unrelated to the reported issue. So the number of buttons were stripped down from 36/34/25 buttons to 7/8/9 buttons (default.bar / barre2.bar / barre3.bar)
• None of the referenced folders can be found on my system. So I had to change the remaining path specifications.
• None of the used icon files will be found on a standard T.C. installation. So I had to change the used icons as well.
• For the convenience of readers who do not speak French fluently, English translations were added where appropriate.

Bar-Files Used for Testing

Default.bar

[Buttonbar]
Buttoncount=7
button1=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,53
cmd1=RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
iconic1=0
menu1=Éjecter clé USB… (Eject USB device)
button2=
iconic2=0
button3=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,14
cmd3=498
iconic3=0
menu3=Configurer la barre 1 en cours (Configure current buttonbar - Default.bar)
button4=
iconic4=0
button5=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,78
cmd5=%$PERSONAL%\tc750a\Karl\barre2.bar
iconic5=0
menu5=Ouvrir barre 2 (Open buttonbar 2 - Barre2.bar)
button6=
iconic6=0
button7=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,76
cmd7=%$PERSONAL%\tc750a\Karl\barre3.bar
iconic7=0
menu7=Ouvrir barre 3 (Open buttonbar 3 - Barre3.bar)

Barre2.bar

[Buttonbar]
Buttoncount=8
button1=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,53
cmd1=RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
iconic1=0
menu1=Éjecter clé USB… (Eject USB device)
button2=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,53
cmd2=RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
iconic2=0
menu2=Éjecter clé USB… (Eject USB device)
button3=
iconic3=0
button4=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,77
cmd4=%$PERSONAL%\tc750a\Karl\default.bar
iconic4=0
menu4=Ouvrir barre 1 (Open buttonbar 1 - Default.bar)
button5=
iconic5=0
button6=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,14
cmd6=cm_ButtonConfig
iconic6=0
menu6=Configurer la barre 2 en cours (Configure current buttonbar - Barre2.bar)
button7=
iconic7=0
button8=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,76
cmd8=%$PERSONAL%\tc750a\Karl\barre3.bar
iconic8=0
menu8=Ouvrir barre 3 (Open buttonbar 3 - Barre3.bar)

barre3.bar

[Buttonbar]
Buttoncount=9
button1=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,53
cmd1=RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
iconic1=0
menu1=Éjecter clé USB… (Eject USB device)
button2=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,53
cmd2=RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
iconic2=0
menu2=Éjecter clé USB… (Eject USB device)
button3=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,53
cmd3=RunDll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL hotplug.dll
iconic3=0
menu3=Éjecter clé USB… (Eject USB device)
button4=
iconic4=0
button5=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,77
cmd5=%$PERSONAL%\tc750a\Karl\default.bar
iconic5=0
menu5=Ouvrir la barre 1 (Open buttonbar 1 - Default.bar)
button6=
iconic6=0
button7=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,78
cmd7=%$PERSONAL%\tc750a\Karl\barre2.bar
iconic7=0
menu7=Ouvrir la barre 2 (Open buttonbar 2 - Barre2.bar)
button8=
iconic8=0
button9=%COMMANDER_PATH%\WCMICONS.DLL,14
cmd9=498
iconic9=0
menu9=Configurer la barre 3 en cours… (Configure current buttonbar - Barre3.bar)

Note:
Default.bar holds 1 button to "Eject the USB device".
Barre2.bar holds 2 buttons to "Eject the USB device".
Barre3.bar holds 3 buttons to "Eject the USB device".
This was done in order to make sure that the buttonbars can be recognized more easily. Looking at the screenshots you will understand, I guess.


Test Results - See the 4 Screenshot Images

• Screenshot TC750_buttonbars.PNG serves to illustrate what the 3 (reduced) buttonbars look like when invoked normally (not as menus).
  You can see what each button does.
• The following 3 screenshots will illustrate for each of the 3 buttonbars what it looks like when invoked normally vs what it looks like when invoked as a menu.
  Please, do not miss the annotations inside the screenshots. They explain why the buttonbars are displayed as they are displayed in buttonbar mode and in menu mode.
• Screenshot TC750_buttonbars_bar01.PNG: Starting point is buttonbar 2. Inside buttonbar 2 (barre2.bar), the button to open buttonbar 1 (default.bar) is
  (1) clicked normally thus opening the bar-file in buttonbar mode
  (2) shift-clicked thus opening it in menu mode
  Note that the missing button in menu mode is the button meant to open the still active parent buttonbar 2 (barre2.bar)
• Screenshot TC750_buttonbars_bar02.PNG: Starting point is buttonbar 1. Inside buttonbar 1 (default.bar), the button to open buttonbar 2 (barre2.bar) is
  (1) clicked normally thus opening the bar-file in buttonbar mode
  (2) shift-clicked thus opening it in menu mode
  Note that the missing button in menu mode is the button meant to open the still active parent buttonbar 1 (default.bar)
• Screenshot TC750_buttonbars_bar03.PNG: Starting point is buttonbar 1. Inside buttonbar 1 (default.bar), the button to open buttonbar 3 (barre3.bar) is
  (1) clicked normally thus opening the bar-file in buttonbar mode
  (2) shift-clicked thus opening it in menu mode
  Note that the missing button in menu mode is the button meant to open the still active parent buttonbar 1 (default.bar)

Conclusion

The performed tests, illustrated by the quoted bar-files and the screenshots, should be sufficient to prove that Total Commander acts as designed when displaying buttonbars as menus:

This is a feature. TC hides from menus items pointing to bar-files used to open current menu.

So the term bug is inappropriate whatever your grandson says. It is a design decision.

If you do not like this designed behaviour, this is a different story. Maybe you can convince Christian to change the design.

Kind regards,
Karl

[Clo]

2karlchen

Hello Karl !

• Just some remarks to close (perhaps) this deaf's dialogue…:?

- My own icons are available easily, for free and are more meaningful. I dislike the “standard” TC ones, that isn't a secret.
- I set the bar-icons @ right (my mania, but I'm right-handed).

…(2) shift-clicked thus opening it in menu mode
Note that the missing button in menu mode is the button meant to open the still active parent buttonbar 2 (barre2.bar)

• Here is the hitch ! That case is shown on my IMAGE “C” above :
- That isn't quite true, since looking at this image, you can see that the new active bar is #1 on the menu as expected
AND also on the bar itself where the button 1 is shown PRESSED and remains so as long as the menu is open !
- Thus, the bar 2 can't be still the active one, despite that the display of the icons on the bar -when the menu is open-
is not refreshed (it should, I guess). Maybe a short delay when Shift+Click_ing a bar icon would allow to refresh the display
of the new bars status on the bar, then open the menu.
- The “hidden” icon on the menu is alright the one of the new active bar 1, but displayed with its “configure icon”,
while the icon to open the bar2 -which is no more active - is missing…
- In brief and in the case of my layout, the programme considers that two bars are active (!)
and hides TWO icons (the “configure icon” represents one).
- So, the lack of the button 2 IS abnormal. Same in the others cases.
- On my IMAGE “E”, what about the wrong icon for the menu-active bar ?

• Sorry to make you sweating on this… but that layout for bars (only) is very convenient and can be set so easily.
Later, some (new) users could scratch their heads when attempting to show them as menus.

…If you do not like this designed behaviour, this is a different story.

• That isn't a secret either… You have links in that thread to topics where that was explained¦discussed…

Maybe you can convince Christian to change the design.

VG
Claude
Clo