On demand only Lister plugins

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DrShark
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On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *DrShark »

It wouyld be nice of it'd be possible to put some of them into some "On demand" plugins category so they woul be never accessed with 4 key, but still could be called on demand using Lister's menu with plugins list (whis is also currently not implememted). This would be mainly useful for plugins which try to show up for too many types of files, and/or don't react to '4' key (so user have to use an Image/Multimedia menu to switch from such plugin to next one).
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *Horst.Epp »

Support+
for Lister's menu with plugins list (which is currently not implememted).
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funkymonk
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *funkymonk »

Support++
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

Sounds like a good idea, but it should be configurable by the user, not set by the plugin.
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *funkymonk »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2021-06-29, 14:21 UTC Sounds like a good idea, but it should be configurable by the user, not set by the plugin.
Sure. It would be great if the user could define a "2nd level plugin list".

... and even greater if the user could simply select the plugin to use from a list.
The list should be sorted (1) by "support for the file format" and (2) by "priority"

E.g.:

1 plugin1 (would be used first anyways -- highest prio)
2 plugin2 (would be used next -- 2nd highest prio)
...
----- (separator)
a pluginA (would normally not be used by cycling through the plugins with '4')
b pluginB (would normally not be used by cycling through the plugins with '4')
...

By prepending the plugins with numbers/letters, they are easily accessible by pressing the corresponding key.
(And the mix of digits/letters separates the plugins and it would even allow 9+26 plugins to be accessible by pressing just one key.)

By showing the plugins below the separator, a user could "bypass" the match filters for plugins that would normally not even be tried by a certain plugin. Why? Sometimes files have an unusual extension (e.g., .tmp instead of .mp4 while the file is still downloaded in some browser or if the true file format shall be hidden from the user). In this case, a match filer (e.g. "*.mp*") would prevent TC from using the correct plugin. The user could then "force" the usage of the plugin. Of course, the plugin could still reject the file if it cannot be loaded correctly.

What do you think?

BR
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *nsp »

Lister menu is for me the most wanted feature and the key to next suggestion. Support +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Being able to define lister as skipable globally can be useful to have main listers for general purpose with quick jump (level 1)
Dedicated lister you can access on demand by menu (level2) ! Support ++
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *ghisler(Author) »

During the development of TC9.50, I actually tried to add a menu to pick a plugin, but it just wasn't feasible: I have currently more than 50 Lister plugins installed. When I have to view 20 different files, and pick a Lister plugin for each manually, I would lose a LOT of time. That's why I came up with the idea of "View method by file type", where you can assign one or more view method to a type. If you assign for example 3 plugins, you can just switch through them by pressing '4', no need to pick from a list of 50 plugins where 90% are not suited to view that file.
The list should be sorted (1) by "support for the file format" and (2) by "priority"
Using the detect string would be a way to reduce the number of plugins, but looking at the list in wincmd.ini, many use very broad detect strings and then decide on a file by file base whether they will open the file or not. That's how the current process works: TC sends a file to the plugin, and when the plugin doesn't load it, try the next plugin.
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *funkymonk »

Hello Mr. Ghisler!

First, thank you for this great tool Total Commander which I use with pleasure "24/7" since a long time.

Regarding the plugin selection:

I like the idea of cycling through the plugins by pressing '4', and I also like the idea of selecting the most wanted plugins through "View method by file type". However, I still miss the possibility to try other plugins every now and then:
  • Let's say there is a file where the extension doesn't match the content (e.g., image.tmp for a jpg or setting.ini for some xml file). How would I tell TC/Lister/QuickView to use the "right" plugin? Especially if I have other plugins defined for .tmp and .ini?
  • Let's say there is a plugin which I commonly avoid since it is slow or has other deficits. Thus, the plugin is not in the list. Still, it would be able to show some information that is not available from other plugins. How would I request the use of the plugin?
I think, my idea described above in this thread can be added on top of what already exists:
If Lister/QV is launched for some file, the default behavior should still apply as described in the manual:
If you have defined 2 or more view methods for an extension, pressing '4' multiple times will change only through these methods. If you have specified only one view method, opening Lister with F3 will use this method. Pressing '4' multiple times will change all Lister plugins if they support the file type.
This way, there is
no need to pick from a list of 50 plugins where 90% are not suited to view that file.
But in addition, there could be a list as described above (e.g., in the menu or context menu), where the user can select a specific plugin from all installed plugins. The list should be reasonably sorted. Considering the detect strings you have mentioned, this might be a sorting:

Code: Select all

1...n   most wanted plugins (according to "View method by file type")
---separator---
n+1...   plugins which were not listed above but where the detect string matches
---separator---
a...   all remaining plugins
Could this be a feasible approach?
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *Horst.Epp »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2021-06-30, 07:26 UTC During the development of TC9.50, I actually tried to add a menu to pick a plugin, but it just wasn't feasible: I have currently more than 50 Lister plugins installed. When I have to view 20 different files, and pick a Lister plugin for each manually, I would lose a LOT of time. That's why I came up with the idea of "View method by file type", where you can assign one or more view method to a type. If you assign for example 3 plugins, you can just switch through them by pressing '4', no need to pick from a list of 50 plugins where 90% are not suited to view that file.
The list should be sorted (1) by "support for the file format" and (2) by "priority"
Using the detect string would be a way to reduce the number of plugins, but looking at the list in wincmd.ini, many use very broad detect strings and then decide on a file by file base whether they will open the file or not. That's how the current process works: TC sends a file to the plugin, and when the plugin doesn't load it, try the next plugin.
Christian, I don't believe that many users have 50+ lister plugins active.
I have about 15 and even if a user has 20 or 30, a list for selection should still display without the need for scrolling.
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solid
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *solid »

I've just counted, have 21 lister plugins installed. Some of them are overlapping, some of them never or used only once or twice. Maybe some are even obsolete.

I've been using the same TC installation for almost 20 years, so for some of the plugins don't even remember that I've installed them on some occasion.

@funkymonk suggestion is worth considering.
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *funkymonk »

solid wrote: 2021-07-01, 08:40 UTC I've been using the same TC installation for almost 20 years, so for some of the plugins don't even remember that I've installed them on some occasion.
Same situation here -- with more than 40 lister plugins that have piled up over the years. Most are indeed in use and thus, an option for explicit selection would be great. Still, some optimization and a clean up is definitely necessary (this is why I have also suggested https://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=74940).
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *kellewriter »

nsp wrote: 2021-06-29, 16:21 UTC Lister menu is for me the most wanted feature and the key to next suggestion. Support +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Being able to define lister as skipable globally can be useful to have main listers for general purpose with quick jump (level 1)
Dedicated lister you can access on demand by menu (level2) ! Support ++
How to remove context menu Lister?





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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *funkymonk »

kellewriter wrote: 2021-07-02, 03:06 UTC How to remove context menu Lister?
What do you mean?
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *petermad »

2funkymonk
What do you mean?
Maybe kellewriter means the "View (Lister)" item in the context menu: https://madsenworld.dk/tcmd/listerincontextmenu.png - it can not be removed (it can be replaced with a blank line though)
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Re: On demand only Lister plugins

Post by *DrShark »

ghisler(Author) wrote: 2021-06-30, 07:26 UTC When I have to view 20 different files, and pick a Lister plugin for each manually, I would lose a LOT of time.
That would be way faster if such menu would prowide Sort option to sort files alphabetically instead of their wincmd.ini order.
So I see this menu looking next way:

Code: Select all

Sort->
----
Automatic
Interal
----['Default view method' group if available]
Plugin0.wlx
....
PluginN.wlx
----[All plugins from ListerPlugins section except from 'Default view method' group]
PluginM.wlx
...
PluginX.wlx
----[On demand only plugins (not accessible with 4 key by default):]
PluginY.wlx
...
PluginZ.wlx
The "Sort->" submenu could include following options:

Code: Select all

Default order
Alphabet order (each group)
Alphabet order (all plugins)
Switch plugin with '4' key by defined order 
Maybe it's worth to add also reverse sort orders for each sort method...
Sort options explanation:
Defaiult order - plugins in each group will be sorted in order as stored in wincmd.ini
Alphabet order (each group) - each group of plugins list will be sorted in alphabet order
Alphabet order (all plugins) - the list of plugin will be shown without groups, just all installed plugins sorted in alphabet order
Switch plugin with '4' key by defined order - apply the sort order set for plugins list menu to the '4' key, so pressing it will switch plugins in order as shown in menu. Combined with "Alphabet order (all plugins)" sort order it will also allow to switch to the plugins from "On demand only plugins" group with '4' key.
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