[TC11.0] Sync directories tool: Hotkey doesn't work on selected folder

[AntonyD]

2ghisler(Author)
We continue to delve into the nuances of programming? Or are we evaluating the user's vision of the interactions with mouse and keyboard?
The user simply does actions that are adequate from his point of view and permitted from the point of view of the program!
And in the case under discussion, he does them in just two ways - and no one (even with the help of a help file) will be able to explain to him why you suddenly "break the logical connection" between them. And still is inserting your deep program explanations about HOW it works inside the code. Instead of just reducing user behavior to the same visible result for these two actions.

[petermad]

... but that the behavior of calling a command through the context menu and the hotkey is different.

But the behaviour is NOT different. select some files (with Shift+Enter or Ctrl+Enter) and press Ctrl+M and the copy direction of those files is cleared - select some other files and right-click on one of them (or press Shift+F10 or the Context menu button on the keyboard) to open the context menu - click on "Remove selection" and the copy direction of those files is also cleared.

What is it that you see as a different behaviour?

[Helix751]

I'm amazed about how this whole thread became a discussion on whether the description of an action corresponds to the action performed by the code and not about user's experience or user-perceived actions logic (or lack of logic).

I posted this issue wih usability or UX in mind, not about code or the steps needed to actually carry out the action. If more steps than really needed are required for a single task to be carried out, then it's not efficient and UX is degraded. (plenty of examples of this come to mind, but a single infamous one is the steps required to open Device Manager in Windows 10/11.. A single shortcut 'Win-Pause' was needed until Win 7. Plain and simple for each and every power user. Nowadays, this very same shortcut opens a new dialogue on which one has to scroll down to choose an obscure hidden link to get the same result)

For this very thread's subject, it makes sense (again, from the POV of a user, not the programmer), that when I choose a folder (with its elements selected or not), to perform the task (that is, remove or clear the sync actions), it is perfomed at once for all its elements.
If this approach requires a bit of additional coding to emulate the 'right-click' selection or sort, for selecting all folder items, then so be it. UX is a must and it's hard to convince or even explain to a user why two alternative actions that should be equivalent in results (carrying out a task by mouse clicks or by a keyboard shortcut) didn't work similarly as expected.

I agree this issue may not be a bug, but it should be treated as such or at least as a suggestion for improvement. Just changing the action's description is not really Ok to solve the issue, either.

All this also reminds me the fact TC is precisely the power tool it has always been and still is, and differentiates from Explorer or other fancy visual file managers because of its intensive and greatly efficient use of the KEYBOARD. The learning curve from the decades-old Norton Commander and Total Commander hasn't been steep at all and has allowed me to focus on producivity and efficiency. And that's the main reason I believe efficient use of shortcuts is so relevant, imho. Even for a tiny and seemingly irrelevant operation in a single command dialogue.

[AntonyD]

2petermad

What is it that you see as a different behaviour?

In fact - the man above has written everything very clearly.

I will also try briefly:
Open this SyncDir. tool, make sure you have directories with their child elements in the synchronization list.
Now stand on the line representing one such "heavy" catalog.
Now call CTRL-M from keyboard. Saw - WHAT exactly happened?
Remember, from which ONE element the synchronization direction's mark was unchecked?
Now return the selection and call the context menu above _the same_ item!
And call the same command "Remove selection" in order to remove the selection)))
Now Did you see - from WHAT NUMBER of elements the copy checkbox was unchecked?
From the directory itself and ALL its child elements!

And is this the same behavior for you?

[petermad]

As I see the issue is not whether Ctrl+M works as expected, because it works on selected files (or the file under the cursor) as it is supposed to.

The issue for some seems to be what should happen when clicking on a directory bar. Currently it just gets highlighted and some of the shortcuts will work (Ctrl+P, Alt+Down, Alt+Shift+Down, Alt+Enter, Alt+Shift+Enter, Ctrl+Alt+L, Ctrl+Alt+R), because these are tasks that you can perform on a directory itself (not on the files in the directory).

But changing the copy direction (Ctrl+D, Ctrl+M, Ctrl+R, Ctrl+L, Ctrl+W) can only be performed on selected files - and there is no copy direction boxes on the folder bars to change the content of.

As a feature, TC currently selects all files in a directory when right-clicking on it, and at the same time opens the context menu (because that is what right-clicking usually does) - and that is what seems to be the reason for the confusion.

To make it less confusing I suggest this to Ghisler:
Make Ctrl+Click (or Shift+click) on a directory bar select all the files in the directory (as right-click currently does), but without opening the context menu. Then you can just press Ctrl+M afterwards. Also, pressing Space and or Insert when the directory bar is highlighted could be made to select all files in the directory, to accommodate keyboard-only people.

I think Ctrl+click on the directory bar would be best, because that opens for the possibility, that selections of files in other folders can be kept.

[JOUBE]

I don't understand what's going on in this discussion and I use the sync tool several times a day: When I have to do such a complicated job of selecting, marking, etc.: This is individual work and mainly work with the mouse. for scrolling *) and then also for the marking work. You can hardly do this with the keyboard without errors or it is very cumbersome and superfluous, since you have the mouse in your hand anyway. A precise individual work is hardly possible otherwise. and it works very well. Everything else seems pretty academic to me and has little to do with long-term use. But maybe I'm operationally blind.

I would like to understand: after you scroll with the mouse, do you put the mouse down to press Ctrl+M? Or do you keep the mouse in one hand and use the other hand to perform a spread grip between the Ctrl key and the M key with one hand? Both would be really very cumbersome and time-consuming. In the second case, even the forearm would be affected by the movement. You have to raise your arm. In the first case, you may have to take your eyes off the screen to grab the mouse again. I don't understand this handling at all.

Joube

*) Scrolling down and up to check folders (e.g. folders who are only renamed...) and files

[Helix751]

I would like to understand: after you scroll with the mouse, do you put the mouse down to press Ctrl+M?

Nope. I use both, the mouse and keyboard, but with TC I definitely use the keyboard way more than in other apps (save for AutoCAD, maybe).

Or do you keep the mouse in one hand and use the other hand to perform a spread grip between the Ctrl key and the M key with one hand?

Indeed yes. That's it! I use this for most other actions as well: right-hand mouse right-button selection of files and left-hand F8, F5, F6. It's blazingly fast. Especially when carrying out several operations in different directories.

Both would be really very cumbersome and time-consuming.

No at all. My fingers reach both the Ctrl and the M keys (and most other keys also.. there's a right Ctrl sitting also on the keyboard's right side) quite easily.

[JOUBE]

My fingers reach both the Ctrl and the M keys (and most other keys also.. there's a right Ctrl sitting also on the keyboard's right side) quite easily.

Okay, but don't you have to turn your eyes from the screen to the keyboard to hit the two keys and you have to raise your forearm over the keyboard from left to right? That would disturb my concentration on the selection on the screen and I would have to start afresh here and there. Why don't you mark with the mouse, which seams to me much faster? Are there any special reasons for this?

joube

[Helix751]

Why don't you mark with the mouse, which seams to me much faster? Are there any special reasons for this?

Because I seldom use the right-button on these operations. Just left clicking for selection and expanding selections (with left hand for Ctrl and Shift for this). It's much more efficient to just make a selection and then pressing a shortcut (as the left hand is aleady over the kbd) than making a selection, then right-clicking, look for a specific menu item and clicking it.
Again, just my way of working since the old Win3.x dasys and Windows Commander 2.x