[Bug] Total bytes indications

[Clo]

2Postkutscher

Hi !

2^10=1024 and NOT 1000.
Decimal is nonsence.
Cluster size is other talk.

- To use the KILO, MEGA, GIGA etc. prefixes for binary is a piece of nonsense !

These Greek roots mean decimal multiples ! Ancient Greek people had not any computer !

- This was a huge error that to use these units for binary !
- Since now we have official binary units, let's use them !
- Did you read the Wiki I quoted ?
- And if M$ refuses to apply the norms, this's their biz… Let's try to be more intelligent (not very difficult in the case).

 R
Claude
Clo

[petermad]

2HolgerK

s there anywhere an official WCMD_ENG.LNG.

Download http://www.totalcmd.net/plugring/TcMenu32_en_653.html - it contains copies of the official WCMD_ENG.LNG, that translators are given.

[HolgerK]

2petermad
THX, I will try your alternate menu. Looks interesting, also if I must learn some new keystrokes to reach menus like Show instead of View.

But if this Ki, Mi, Gi,.. prefix, instead of K, M, G,.. will be hardcoded inside the next TC, I will write a small program to modifiy the language file from binary prefix to the old nonsens prefix.
And I will use this until M$ will offer an option under "regional settings" where I can select the same prefix and the same calculation mode (base 10^3 or base 2^10).

2Clo
I agree, it's nonsense. (since the first floppy with 2*720*1024 bytes capacity labeled as 1.44MByte floppy)

But actual it's consistent with most of the M$ dialogs.

To implement this in the language file will only add one additional confusion to the already existing confusion about the meaning of k[M,G]Byte.
I think this is not a step from today to tomorrow.
The introduction of binary prefixes or alternate SI prefixes with correct calculated multiple of 10^3 will be a process over several years.

Kind regards
Holger

[Sam_Zen]

A big apology for the fuzz I've caused here ...
I'm familiar with the binary system, so I should have seen, that the number on the bar is given in Kb, while the space shows the exact number of total bytes.

So no Bug at all.

I personally don't think it is necessary to ask for more precise or different prefixes in TC. It's a lot of work, and for what. Prefixes are used to shorten the description, so they are per definition raw representations. I had a ZX81 with, according to the manual, 2K RAM. Of course I knew this meant 2048 bytes, but I've learned to live with it. No big deal.

I agree with Clo about the misplaced domination of the decimal system. Bidirectional conversion routines are even embedded in most microprocessors from the beginning, taking a lot of space. Just for the ease of the user.
If the user would have had to accept from the start, that running a computer means getting familiar with the binary number-system or the hexadecimal representation, the machines could have been much faster.
I explained my grandchildren at very young age about binary and hex. After 2 or three sessions they were able to read, write and convert numbers.

[XPEHOPE3KA]

Woooo...
How conservative people can be...

2HolgerK

But actual it's consistent with most of the M$ dialogs.

F??? MShit, please. It is MS who is responsible for user stupidity and computer illiteracy (or how is it called in English...)
Actually, you work in TC, not in Windows

2Sam_Zen

It's a lot of work

Is to change several strings in LNG hard? For you?

[HolgerK]

Woooo...
How conservative people can be...
...
It is MS who is responsible for user stupidity and computer illiteracy ...(or how is it called in English...)
Actually, you work in TC, not in Windows

Do you really think so?
Open the following link in mozilla firefox http://nssdcftp.gsfc.nasa.gov/standards/cdf/dist/cdf31/unix/
and download the file cdf31-dist-all.tar.gz.
Count the bytes(1,574,532) and compare with the shown size as 1.5MByte
In ISO terms it should be 1.5MiBytes!

So I get the impression that it's is actual usual (not only in M$ windows) to use the prefix M instead of Mi.

I'm not against the SI prefix k,M,G if the size is also calculated in 10^3, but this should be used at every place with the same meaning.

You may say that TC could do this better.
But in my opinon this is useless as long as TC is the only one who implements this.

Kind regards
Holger

[XPEHOPE3KA]

Count the bytes(1,574,532) and compare with the shown size as 1.5MByte
In ISO terms it should be 1.5MiBytes!

This doesn't prove anything.

[icfu]

But in my opinon this is useless as long as TC is the only one who implements this.

There is no chance at all to expect that such a change is done by Microsoft and all other software developers at the same time, so the revolution has to be started by someone.

Everyone can be a part of that revolution, just start with using the CORRECT prefixes when writing forum entries so others have a chance to see these curious new symbols.

I do, at least, because the old naming scheme sucks. The bigger the hard disks grow, the more absurd the binary system gets.

Icfu

[HolgerK]

... Everyone can be a part of that revolution, just start with using the CORRECT prefixes when writing forum entries so others have a chance to see these curious new symbols.

I do, at least, because the old naming scheme sucks. The bigger the hard disks grow, the more absurd the binary system gets.

Icfu

So the question is: What is correct?
Or better: What is useful?

I don't think that this binary prefix will be a base for a revolution, because the number before the binary prefix is still a computer technical number.
An advantage for the user would be to see the SI prefix and numbers based on engineering units (10^3, 10^6, 10^9,..).

BTW the thing byte should be called correctly octet, because a byte is just a bunch of bits.
This is already usual in France. (Hi Clo )

Kind regards
Holger

[icfu]

So the question is: What is correct?

Correct is:
1 kB = 1000 Bytes (SI-Units)
1 KiB = 1024 Bytes

Or better: What is useful?

It's useful to give the users a chance to calculate bytes either with binary or decimal prefixes. It's also useful to give them a chance to even display the "wrong" prefixes to save space.

The problem in TC is:
Not even the wrong use of prefixes and units is correct. TC displays "1 kb" although it means 1 kByte, not 1 kbit.

An advantage for the user would be to see the SI prefix and numbers based on engineering units (10^3, 10^6, 10^9,..).

Of course.

This is already usual in France. (Hi Clo )

French isn't suited to give a good example. Their rape of foreign words is even worse than that of German language after the Rightwritereform.

Anyway, whatever fits for you. You can also call a byte a horse, if you like, just edit language file of TC.

Icfu

[Postkutscher]

- This was a huge error that to use these units for binary !
- Since now we have official binary units, let's use them !
- Did you read the Wiki I quoted ?
- And if M$ refuses to apply the norms, this's their biz… Let's try to be more intelligent (not very difficult in the case).

Yes,I have read the Wiki.I am agree, that it "was a huge error that to use these units for binary". But it is so. And there is no reason to change anything,except one. Marketing. It is better to sold us DVD=4,7 and not 4,5 GB. That`s all. We must not use decimal in computer world at all. Neither kilo , no kibi. Only binary.And will be not missunderstood.
You know , there are 10 kind of people : who understand binary and who not.

And our talk began from differences.IMHO it based on cluster size and not to do with kilo/kibi. You may write a 1 Byte big file and it will occupy circa 4096 Bytes on your harddrive. And the file 4091 Byte will occupy the same 4096 Bytes. That is ! TC calculates all right and all you need is to know when it gives the size depend on claster size and when no.
So simple.
Excuse me, please, my english. I hope you understand what I want to say.
I hate reformators,who didn`t know what is the back compatibility.And not M$ have used this word at the first time.

[Clo]

2HolgerK

Hello !

BTW the thing byte should be called correctly octet, …

• Yes, right, in France and French speaking countries, we use octet = 8 bits {o}. It's quite logical.

2icfu
Hi Jeff !

Everyone can be a part of that revolution, just start with using the CORRECT prefixes when writing forum entries so others have a chance to see these curious new symbols.

• I do too… And I don't use idiotic words re_sucked from English while we have right and shorter ones. Let know too that legion of English words are stollen old French words (like "challenge", "to remain" etc)
- Finally, about a revolution, we are experts in this !

 VG
Claude
Clo

[icfu]

Finally, about a revolution, we are experts in this !

Exactly!

Icfu

[HolgerK]

Signature: Viva la revolution: Kibibytes strike back!

Holger

[HolgerK]

It's time to press the reset button on my 1 MiB (Men in Black) flash stick.

sssssssSSSZAP!

The first post from Sam Zen was about file size (in kb) and number of bytes shown in the status line (in bytes).
Come on guys.
We are talking about the number of bytes consumed by files.
Not about computer, video or flash RAM or CD's capacity.
And I think, if you want to start a real revolution, it may be better to count numbers in a human and not in computer metric.

I see three different scenario:

A) 1 KB is equivalent to 1024 Bytes (1 MB = 1024 KB, ...)
This is the actual state, and it's not very comfortable, because you are forced to compute with multiple of 1024 or 1024*1024.
But on the other side it's consistent with the majority of actual software interfaces.
And it's sufficient to compare different quantities:
size of the marked files in the source panel <-> free space in the destination panel.
(of course if you set the right options in TC).

B) 1 KiB is equivalent to 1024 Bytes (1 MiB = 1024 KiB, ...)
This is your request about a revolution.
But what is the difference to the first scenario?
My opinion is, it's only the right name for the wrong quantity.
And as long as the web or your computer shows this quantities with other prefix, it's only confusing, because 1KB is the same amount of bytes as 1KiB, or may be not?

C) 1 kB is equivalent to 1000 Bytes (1 MB = 1000 kB, ...)
And this would be the real revolution, because it meets human needs!
Okay the same as above(1kB is a different number of bytes than 1KB), but it's quite easier to compute with this quantities:

The sum of one thousand files @ a size of one thousand bytes is nothing else than 1 million bytes!

Let's quote the link binary prefix

Hard disk drives: Most manufacturers state capacity in decimal units. This usage has a long tradition, even predating the SI system of decimal prefixes adopted in 1960. The decimal-based capacity in hard disk drives follows the method used for serially accessed storage media which predated direct access storage media like hard disk drives. When a stream of data is stored, it's more logical to indicate how many thousands, millions, or billions of bytes have been stored versus how many multiples of 1024, 1,048,576, or 1,073,741,824 bytes have been. When the first hard disk drives were developed, the decimal measurement continued the tradition of punch cards and tapes. Thus, today, most devices that are addressed or seen as "storage" use the decimal system to identify capacity.

So my request:
Please Mr. Ghisler add this three options to TC.
And everyone involved in this discussion will be happy, and no matter what the future will bring to us (may be MiB in M$) TC will be flexible enough to fit the users needs.

Kind regards
Holger

PS:
I know:
The sum of 1024 files @ a size of 1024 bytes is nothing else than 1 MiB!