Total Commander

There was a similar poll back in 2003 which ended with a draw: 17:17 for CHM vs. HLP:
http://ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=6775

Now the situation is a bit different than in 2003, so I would like to ask you this question again: Should I include HLP or CHM help files in the main installer? Currently the CHM files are a separate download.

There are some advantages and disadvantages each format:
HLP:
+ Works on all 32-bit Windows versions from Windows 95 to Windows 7
+ normally loads more quickly than CHM
+ results in a smaller download (installer)
- no search within a page

CHM:
+ Works on 64-bit Vista and Windows 7 directly, no need to install winhlp32
+ Search and Ctrl+C work within a page
- requires installation of newer Internet Explorer on Windows 95+98, since with IE4 or older many pages look really misaligned
- makes troubles when launched from a network drive (TC copies it to temp, and therefore a temp file will remain if TC crashes)
- some companies may have removed the required Internet Explorer control, for security reasons

Let me state it like this: The version which is usable by the majority of users should be included in the main installer.

Due to the fact, that Windows 95+98 are outdated meanwhile and rarely used nowadays (well I still have one running at a VM) I vote for CHM to be included (HLP as separate download)

CHM Support++

I have voted for CHM.

HLP-files drives me nuts with scrolling, navigation (hyperlink acts on button down) and searching (pop up windows which automatically close after [display], always need to activate the second tab (find) again).

As I wrote here the HLP file fails on UNC paths too.

About the size (additional 200kByte per help):
CSS-files instead of the current per paragraph style and font definitions would reduce the size of the CHM.
Also using BMP instead of GIF (the help compiler does a really good job at compressing bitmaps) can help to reduce the size a little bit.
I know you are using a tool (HelpScribble?) to manage HLP and CHM from one source; maybe there are some options to create a better html formatting.

Regards
Holger

CHM+
HLP: can't scroll with the mouseWheel, nor does the page focus on what you are scrolling when you "grab" the scroll bar. No selection of text for copy/paste. Among other things.

EDIT:
Mixed up the scroll issue, it does scroll with Wheel, but the page wont focus if you grab the scroll bar to move the page faster.

2Balderstrom

HLP: can't scroll with the mouseWheel,

Works fine here...

I voted .chm althoug I almost don't care but "Search and Ctrl+C work within a page" is nice.

But no matter whether it ends up with one ot the other, I would like to get both formats with the installer, in stead of having to download the "other" format from some not easy to find link.

I suggest that the additional help file could be put in a folder called Extra.

In that folder could also be put other files like:
wciconex.dll
wciconex.inc
wcmd_eng.lng
wcmd_eng.inc
wcmd_eng.chm
wcmd_eng.hlp
wcmd_deu.chm
wcmd_deu.hlp

And additional help files if they are updated:
wcmd_rus.chm
wcmd_rus.hlp
wcmd_fra.chm
wcmd_fra.hlp
wcmd_chn.chm
wcmd_chn.hlp
wcmd_dut.chm
wcmd_dut.hlp
wcmd_pol.chm
wcmd_pol.hlp
wcmd_grk.chm
wcmd_grk.hlp

Ready to copy to the Language folder to be used as default with the corresponding .lng files

petermad wrote: wcmd_pol.chm

Where did you see that one? I've tried to find it and failed. Writing it from the beginning takes too much time

P.S. Voted for CHM due to search and mouse wheel scroll.

When changing to CHM by default it would be good to have this file in the language folder.

When changing to CHM by default it would be good to have this file in the language folder.

I agree with this statement too.

HLP:
+ Works on all 32-bit Windows versions from Windows 95 to Windows 7

CHM is supported since W98 (out of the box) and after installation of Internet Explorer v4 (or later) W3.x and W95 are able to work with CHM files. IE5 is available for W3.x. This is not an advantage of HLP but a disadvantage for HLP because since WVI HLP it is not supported (out of the box).

In addition I would like to see all language would be installed. http://ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?t=19929

2fenix_productions

Where did you see that one? I've tried to find it and failed.

Here: http://www.ghisler.com/languages.htm - more precisely: https://plugins.ghisler.com/polish/polishhelp.zip

2petermad
It is HLP file

About the size (additional 200kByte per help):
CSS-files instead of the current per paragraph style and font definitions would reduce the size of the CHM.

I have just tested this manually - unfortunately it has very little effect: The largest html file (inisettings.htm) is reduced from 187517 to 87162 bytes. However, in zipped form, it only goes from 24153 to 21899 bytes, which is only about 10%.

Also using BMP instead of GIF (the help compiler does a really good job at compressing bitmaps) can help to reduce the size a little bit.

All images together are only 26219 bytes, so there is not much to save. But since TC's installer doesn't need to fit on a floppy any more, that's not such a big problem.


However, there are some other problems to resolve:
1. Which help file to show when both are present? On NT based systems it's clear (the CHM), but on Win9x/ME? Does anyone know how to detect the presence of Internet Explorer 5 or newer? With IE4 the CHM file looks awful...

2ghisler(Author)

concerning your question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/164539

Regards,
CoolWater

Thanks, that's very helpful!

So when both help file versions are present, I will use the CHM file if IE 5 or later is present, and the HLP file otherwise.