Total Commander too unintuitive?

[JWKauffman]

I'm retired now, but I have more than 40 years' experience designing user interfaces. I would NOT want the job of making TC more intuitive. Apple and Microsoft have paid hundreds of designers over the years to make file management more intuitive, and what we've ended up with are versions of Finder and File Explorer that aren't terribly different than they were in the previous century. I don't find either of them particularly intuitive.

My first experience with dual-pane file management was the MS-DOS version of Norton Commander. My user number for Windows/Total Commander is #144 (I think I paid $10 originally for a perpetual license--thanks Christian!). Which is to say I've been using file managers for a long time.

TC, Finder, and File Explorer each use a different file management design pattern. All these years later, I'm not aware of a fourth pattern that has caught on with users.

It's proved very difficult to make these programs more intuitive without messing with the underlying pattern. People tend to gravitate toward the pattern that makes sense to them. To me, Finder is not my preferred pattern, but I came to the Mac user interface very late. There are third-party applications for Mac, Windows, and Linux that allow you to use your preferred pattern on those platforms (I have a rudimentary dual pane file manager on my Mac).

IMO, TC for Windows is the most powerful dual pane file manager available. Does it have UI problems? Yes, of course, just as any feature-rich software program does. Photoshop is a prime example. Adobe is continually trying to improve the UI, but each change it makes angers long-time users. I learned many years ago (designing GUI interfaces for IBM mainframe software) that it's a cardinal sin to take away functionality from power users. All of my designs retained the keyboard-only UI, while giving new, younger employees a GUI that was more like what they were used to.

TC has the same problem. You can't mess too much with the underlying pattern (with its roots in MS-DOS) without alienating the users who've spent years learning the quirks of the UI. The Photoshop interface is very difficult for new users, but in the end there are no "training wheels". They just have to spend the time learning how Photoshop works.

That said, TC could certainly be improved. The keyboard interface and the GUI could be much better aligned. Certain features (like multiple file renaming) could be made more intuitive. Generally speaking, though, new and casual users will just have to devote the time to learning how TC works. As us veterans know, it's well worth the effort.

[petermad]

2JWKauffman
Thanks for a good reply, I couldn't agree more.

[OT]
Out of curiosity - user number 144 - impressive, but how come you have waited until May 2022 to become a forum member?
[/OT]

[JWKauffman]

Actually, I've been a forum member several times.

I don't use it a lot, and my account details seem to disappear if unused for a couple of years.

[jinsight]

2JWKauffman
I agree with your summary: "new and casual users will just have to devote the time to learning how TC works [i.e. the functions of a file system and which ones any particular user might choose to use] . As us veterans know, it's well worth the effort."

I would add tangentially that as any piece of software matures, as its features and GUI solidify over time, code changes become more and more difficult and time consuming to implement to the point where significant new features or modifications slow to a trickle.

[hi5]

I think the basics are very good (indeed when or once you're used to it) - and although learning all specifics of a program is never easy, things could be done to make things more discoverable. I know people who use TC for 20+ years and I know they don't know synchronized directory switching is a thing for example (don't ask), they have no clue about user commands, or ... It's all there but in my view a bit too hidden.

A modern concept that could be applied is a command palette or omni search for example, which could search: current tabs, recent folders, directory bookmarks, all commands and settings etc. (User configurable as what to include, this could include files (via ev) but wouldn't have to).
You simply discover things that way in other programs - for example you don't have setup a button, shortcut or remember a command to 'toggle hidden files' you can just search 'hidden' and execute the command, if you use it daily you'll setup a hotkey, if you rarely need it, it is just a search away.

Don't alter the concept and basics of TC, just make it easier for the user to discover all the potential of TC. Just my 2cts and commenting from the sideline is very easy of course - I'm a happy user and will no doubt remain so for a very long time. I've a great deal of respect for the developer and how he keeps it going.

[JWKauffman]

I agree. Discoverability is a major problem with TC. It's on my list of low-impact changes (from a development standpoint) that could and should be made. If Christian is unsure how to make it better, I'm sure there are several professionals on the board who could supply ideas and sketches.

[jinsight]

Support++ "a command palette or omni search" to uncover features more easily.

[solid]

What TC is missing is very detailed documentation with examples. The built in help file is more like a technical or engineering manual. It is difficult to find what are you looking for and follow it even for experienced users, especially if they never tackled the features they are looking for.

Web documentation is non-existent, wiki is quite outdated and far from completed.
Just check out the XYplorer or DOPUS documentation. It is very easy to understand, detailly explained with screenshots, even videos. With many examples that can be followed to configure the program or to learn the feature or workflow.

In TC, only long time power users that follow each line of the changelog are aware of all the features and possibilities. Sometimes the changelog is the only place that mentions some improvement.

Also, there are not examples of what I refer to as "creative use" of the program. That is combination of several features or features with different settings to achieve something that is not obvious as possible on the first look.

Many forum users (including me) are very often surprised that something they were asking for and thought not possible, is actually easy to accomplish once you know where and what to look for. But it is difficult to find out by yourself even with help file.

[ghisler(Author)]

Sorry, I'm a developer, not a documentation writer. There don't seem to be any freelance documentation creators either we could hire, so I don't really know how to improve the situation.

[nsp]

Sorry, I'm a developer, not a documentation writer. There don't seem to be any freelance documentation creators either we could hire, so I don't really know how to improve the situation.

By experience, the ones that asks for documentation are the one that do not read it.. The new generation never read technical manual and want to have only cooking recipe that suit their need or video like youtube tutorials.
What could be done:

• Complement the ini entries structured like Ultra TC editor maintain.. (cedf files) Configuration Editor is my main wincmd.ini editor

• Provide a Hotkey and alias report to know what have been defined.

• Implement Configuration quick search by description or ini key

• Beter promote the forum and wiki provide simple tutorial on how to search and find and help.

[Hacker]

nsp,

Provide a Hotkey and alias report

At least a hotkey report already exists. Configuration - Options - Misc - the arrow down next to "Hotkey".

Roman

[nsp]

nsp,

Provide a Hotkey and alias report

At least a hotkey report already exists. Configuration - Options - Misc - the arrow down next to "Hotkey".

Roman

Hi Roman,

This list box only list user hotkey and not all default one with comprehensive (language dependent) description of the command.

Ultra TC Hotkey Editor show all in good way, but my current concern is that it will not be maintained anymore and Christian do not provide as efficient alternatives from configuration Box to search, filter,....

// The Ultra TC Editors, Change Viewer, and PeterMad extended menus are my Swiss army knives for TC.

NsP

[jinsight]

I would ask ghisler(Author), developer to add the feature set of Ultra TC Hotkey Editor into Total Commander release 11.00.

[Ralph]

I would like the full internal command list (with command descriptions) to be included in Help searches.

Footnote about synchronous directory changing in both windows: hi5 wrote,

I know people who use TC for 20+ years and I know they don't know synchronized directory switching is a thing for example (don't ask) ...

The internal command cm_SyncChangeDir can be placed in the Total Commander Start menu or button bar.

[petermad]

I would like the full internal command list (with command descriptions) to be included in Help searches.

Isn't it good enough that you can search in the Choose Command dialog (cm_CommandBrowser).