Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

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CRC
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Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *CRC »

So I've been teetering on the edge of buying totalcmd for many years, and hitting the stupid trial button - but never done it because of one thing....

Support for 7zip archives just really sucks.

Total Commander is really good in many, many other ways, but the fact that with the available plugins, we're either stuck on 2 threads to do compression, or with the Total7Zip plugin, it malfunctions in so many ways that I end up quitting totalcmd again and again and just using the free 7-Zip application.

For example, if I'm backing up my Steam games, I'll create a .7z archive with the appmanifest file in it, move it to my network drive, open it up, create the common folder in the 7z archive, then copy the common\game_name folder across to the archive.

Using wcx_7zip, it works fine, but its limited to 2 threads - which means the additional 30 threads in my CPU go unused.

Using Total7Zip, it starts copying the entire folder to %TEMP% - before it starts doing anything (WHY!?!?!), and will then eventually start compressing... That's after duplicating the entire game on disk - which can be multiple hundreds of gigabytes.

It's 2022 - why does this still have to be sooooo bad?
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norfie²
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *norfie² »

It's probably 7zip's fault if several developers independently fail to make it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *Dalai »

2CRC
Did you know that you can use the context menu to pack files with 7-zip which avoids all the problems listed above? The only thing required for this is to enable the 7-zip shell extension (which is the default when you install 7-zip).

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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *Usher »

CRC wrote: 2022-12-16, 14:40 UTCUsing Total7Zip, it starts copying the entire folder to %TEMP% - before it starts doing anything (WHY!?!?!)
Tell it to Microsoft developers. It's neither a problem with 7-zip nor a problem with TC and its plugins. It's the way how DRAG-AND-DROP Windows feature works - it always uses %TEMP% folder.
You should use keyboard or context menu instead. Unfortunately, context menu integration is broken by Microsoft in Windows 11.

These problems are reported on 7-zip forum more than once every year:
https://sourceforge.net/p/sevenzip/discussion/search/?q=%22drag+and+drop%22&project=0&sort=mod_date_dt+desc
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CRC
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *CRC »

> Did you know that you can use the context menu to pack files with 7-zip which avoids all the problems listed above?

That doesn't help when updating the contents of an archive. As there's no way I can select within multiple subdirectories, I can only create the initial archive, and then add things to the archive.

> It's the way how DRAG-AND-DROP Windows feature works - it always uses %TEMP% folder.

I'm not using drag and drop. I have the archive open in TC. I use the F5 key to copy the selected folder into the archive.

The reality is, the wcx_7zip plugin works fine - except that its limited to 2 threads - which is useless when you're compressing tens of Gb of data...
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *macleod »

CRC wrote: 2022-12-16, 14:40 UTC So I've been teetering on the edge of buying totalcmd for many years, and hitting the stupid trial button - but never done it because of one thing....
.
.
.
It's 2022 - why does this still have to be sooooo bad?
@CRC the nag screen
Image: http://i.imgur.com/DL8Z5.png
and license conditions
This means that you can test it for a period of 30 days. After testing the program, you must either order the full version, or delete the program from your harddisk.
say it clearly. If I understand it well, even though you appreciate "Total Commander is really good in many, many other ways", you've been violating Total commander's license for "many years" and this is the official Total Commander forum.
It's 2022 - why does this still have to be sooooo bad?
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *CRC »

macleod wrote: 2022-12-17, 03:43 UTC you've been violating Total commander's license for "many years" and this is the official Total Commander forum.
Yep. Like the infamous WinRAR 40 day trial.

And yes, Total Commander is pretty good for most things - but I've never been able to justify paying the going rate for a AAA game for it with the completely broken archive support - which is at least half of my usage...

I keep checking it now and again to see if its improved, and then go back to using 7-Zip directly - as its about 75% of the feature set of Total Commander - and is free. Well, at least the features that I use...

If I could get the navigation hotkeys to emulate total commander, then it'd be about 80% feature parity for what I use.

Now if all we're going to do is make excuses, gatekeep and gaslight around the actual problems, then I'll just keep hitting the number and going along with it. If they want to enforce the 30 day trial, that's fine too - I'm more of the opinion that it doesn't expire for a reason.

After all:
Image: https://img.ifunny.co/images/d5a0a5ba3cee35ff033d51173dd1e9247246efdf4a368f788427f95465efc59a_1.jpg
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *Horst.Epp »

2CRC
you are one of the poeple which think software must be free
as long as it doesn't fullfill your very specific requirements.
Today even freeware will need some sponsor to make it work in long term.
Users with your behaviour are of no benefit for any software in the world :(
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CRC
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *CRC »

Horst.Epp wrote: 2022-12-17, 13:13 UTC 2CRC
you are one of the poeple which think software must be free
Not at all, but if you're charging a high fee, then the featureset needs to function properly to justify it.
as long as it doesn't fullfill your very specific requirements.
I think working with archives is probably one of the most used functions in Total Commander. If you don't think so, then that's fine. For me, handling archives in a method that is just as good as free software is a selling point.
Today even freeware will need some sponsor to make it work in long term.
Users with your behaviour are of no benefit for any software in the world :(
Mate, really? I've given my work away for over 20 years. Thousands of hours - on anything from the linux kernel, AMD CPU microcode fixes, to obscure FPGA stuff. This argument doesn't work. 7Zip is free - and integrating it into Total Commander means you don't have to pay the 7Zip team for it.

Does that mean that Total Commander provides no benefit to the 7Zip people and should therefore pay for the privilege to use their code? Well, no - because they decide to give it away with a free license to allow people to use it.

Let me put it another way - Has the author lost anything because I haven't paid a licence fee yet? Well, no. But if I wasn't frustrated enough to join here and post about it, there never would be a license purchased. Hell, my main OS is linux, and I only boot into Windows to play games. So I really only use Total Commander to manage backups of my game library, and a couple of other basic file operations. Ones that I could easily do with 7Zip - or hell, anything else - even Windows Explorer.

The reason I like Total Commander is that it pretty much has the same hotkey layout as Norton Commander did, and then Midnight Commander on linux, and a host of other knockoffs that I've used over the years. Total Commander just happens to be for Windows.

However, if it stirs something magical, and it gets fixed, then it certainly can benefit the author by getting a new license fee from me.

Sadly, I think all I'm going to get on this forum is gaslighting.
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *Dalai »

So, I just tested packing with Total7zip plugin and I can confirm your claim that it copies files to %TEMP% - but only under one condition: copying files to a subdirectory within the archive. Packing files to the archive's root doesn't do that.

Note the directory name when the files are copied to %TEMP% - "Total7zip_temp_40A341C8" in my case. This is NOT done by TC but by the plugin; you can find the string "total7zip_temp_" in total7zip.wcx/.wcx64. Maybe there's a reason why it does this, but I don't know why. Maybe this can be prevented by some configuration in total7zip.xml? Anyway, since this is done by the plugin, it doesn't make sense to wait for TC to change anything, because it won't.

Either you stick with the 7-zip application, or you create some script(s) that help(s) with updating existing archives (without using %TEMP%).

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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *norfie² »

2CRC
It is up to you what you do. It is the author's business what he does. It is silly to complain about the author's business. It is smarter to make constructive suggestions. Even smarter is to find a solution to your own problem.

Tip: Use command line options of 7Zip for solving your problem.
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *CRC »

Dalai wrote: 2022-12-17, 15:10 UTC So, I just tested packing with Total7zip plugin and I can confirm your claim that it copies files to %TEMP% - but only under one condition: copying files to a subdirectory within the archive. Packing files to the archive's root doesn't do that.
Interesting. That one condition is what I use all the time.

The process is pretty much:
1) Create the 7z archive with the appmanifest file.
2) Move the .7z archive to a network drive
3) Open the .7z archive on the network drive
4) Create a directory in the archive called 'common'
5) Copy the steamapps/common/<game name> into /common in the archive.
Note the directory name when the files are copied to %TEMP% - "Total7zip_temp_40A341C8" in my case. This is NOT done by TC but by the plugin; you can find the string "total7zip_temp_" in total7zip.wcx/.wcx64. Maybe there's a reason why it does this, but I don't know why. Maybe this can be prevented by some configuration in total7zip.xml? Anyway, since this is done by the plugin, it doesn't make sense to wait for TC to change anything, because it won't.
Yeah - the files in %TEMP% either end up in a total7zip directory, or in some cases a tc0 or tc1 directory.
Either you stick with the 7-zip application, or you create some script(s) that help(s) with updating existing archives (without using %TEMP%).
Well, the author could update the inbuilt 7z libraries in TC7Z64.DLL - and therefore remove the need for any kind of plugin for 7zip archiving, and update the handling for the heap of other archives that use the same library.

It's already there, just ooooold...

But yes, that's why I've been sticking with using 7Zip.
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *Dalai »

CRC wrote: 2022-12-18, 00:58 UTC[...] or in some cases a tc0 or tc1 directory.
Well, that directory is created and used by TC, mostly when opening a file from an archive in Lister, and for searching for text (in archives).
Well, the author could update the inbuilt 7z libraries in TC7Z64.DLL - and therefore remove the need for any kind of plugin for 7zip archiving, and update the handling for the heap of other archives that use the same library.
There have been several suggestions to extend 7z archive support in TC beyond unpacking. I don't remember specifics, maybe Ghisler didn't see the need for it because there are two plugins, maybe it was something else entirely.

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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *macleod »

CRC wrote: 2022-12-17, 13:02 UTC Now if all we're going to do is make excuses, gatekeep and gaslight around the actual problems, then I'll just keep hitting the number and going along with it. If they want to enforce the 30 day trial, that's fine too - I'm more of the opinion that it doesn't expire for a reason.
This your sentence is much more funny than the picture you posted after :lol:
I've never read that Total Commander should be just 7zip archives operating application 8)
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Re: Why does 7zip support still totally suck?

Post by *norfie² »

macleod wrote: 2022-12-18, 08:27 UTCI've never read that Total Commander should be just 7zip archives operating application 8)
If it were, then in that case it would be better to get the 7zip author to create a better user interface for 7zip

I don't know if the command line interface of 7zip is still as useless as it was when I decided against 7zip, but maybe an integration as an external program like e.g. ARJ, WinRAR is still possible.
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