Office 2007 files regarded as archives

[oshizelly]

Hi,

Five years ise over from the time this short discussion occurs. Now MS Office 2007/2010/2013 format documents .docX and .xlsX, as well as OpenOffice similar formats, are everywhere. Is there any hope to get a solution for this trouble not to treat them as archives? Opening them on the target pane is actually the small part of the whole problem, as we have the same headache when trying to open Office documents via windows shortcuts (.LNK), or putting the full path into breadcrumb, or in command-line etc. etc.

karlchen

The problem which will come up inevitably is that some users will want T.C. not to treat those document files as archives and others will want T.C. to treat them as archives.

Well, I guess, that the actually overwhelming majority wish/need not to treat MS Office documents as archives, while only some of users might need the opposite sometimes in extraordinary cases. So the answer is quite clear, isn't it? It is a thing they call "democracy"...

[Horst.Epp]

Hi,

Five years ise over from the time this short discussion occurs. Now MS Office 2007/2010/2013 format documents .docX and .xlsX, as well as OpenOffice similar formats, are everywhere. Is there any hope to get a solution for this trouble not to treat them as archives? Opening them on the target pane is actually the small part of the whole problem, as we have the same headache when trying to open Office documents via windows shortcuts (.LNK), or putting the full path into breadcrumb, or in command-line etc. etc.

karlchen

The problem which will come up inevitably is that some users will want T.C. not to treat those document files as archives and others will want T.C. to treat them as archives.

Well, I guess, that the actually overwhelming majority wish/need not to treat MS Office documents as archives, while only some of users might need the opposite sometimes in extraordinary cases. So the answer is quite clear, isn't it? It is a thing they call "democracy"...

As normal user I don't have your problem.
I can always use the function View / "Target = Source"
or assign a hot key to "cm_MatchSrc".
So I will not see the the archive content.

[Sir_SiLvA]

Hi,

Five years ise over from the time this short discussion occurs. Now MS Office 2007/2010/2013 format documents .docX and .xlsX, as well as OpenOffice similar formats, are everywhere. Is there any hope to get a solution for this trouble not to treat them as archives? Opening them on the target pane is actually the small part of the whole problem, as we have the same headache when trying to open Office documents via windows shortcuts (.LNK), or putting the full path into breadcrumb, or in command-line etc. etc.

karlchen

The problem which will come up inevitably is that some users will want T.C. not to treat those document files as archives and others will want T.C. to treat them as archives.

Well, I guess, that the actually overwhelming majority wish/need not to treat MS Office documents as archives, while only some of users might need the opposite sometimes in extraordinary cases. So the answer is quite clear, isn't it? It is a thing they call "democracy"...

Sorry but TC is a filemanager and I expect him to treat an ARCHIVE as an ARCHIVE and nothing else - Case closed.
PS: you should be happy that TC does otherwise you wouldnt be able to find text in them.

[Ovg]

IMHO there is not any problem at all. If you want open document in appropriate program - double click on it. If you want open it as zip - CTRL-PgDn.

[oshizelly]

2Horst.Epp

I can always use the function View / "Target = Source"
or assign a hot key to "cm_MatchSrc".

Well, could you please explain me a bit closer, which way any of the two ways you pointed to can resolve my problem? Please regard, that I do not speak a single word about opening the file currently under cursor on the target pane, but the subject is quite different (please read my previous post).

Thanks!


2Sir_SiLvA

Sorry but TC is a filemanager and I expect him to treat an ARCHIVE as an ARCHIVE and nothing else - Case closed.

Hello Christian! It is a big joy to see you as an author participating in our small discussion. But why do you decided to hide yourself behind a pseudonym?
However regarding your reply content. Have you ever thought of this simple thing, that every file is essentially nothing more than a heap of binary data bites? So according to your logic we do not need any viewer as Lister to view plain text, HTML-s, RTF-s etc, I don't event speak of lister plugins. Everything what we really need from a file manager is HEX-view, and as far as Lister has it, any other option is obsolete and need t be removed ASAP, right?

2Ovg

If you want open document in appropriate program - double click on it. If you want open it as zip - CTRL-PgDn.

Surely! But I did not say a single word of opening Offiice documents in an appropriate program, neither of entering them as archives. Would you please so kind to re-read my previous post to realize the problem I've described.

[Horst.Epp]

2Horst.Epp

I can always use the function View / "Target = Source"
or assign a hot key to "cm_MatchSrc".

Well, could you please explain me a bit closer, which way any of the two ways you pointed to can resolve my problem? Please regard, that I do not speak a single word about opening the file currently under cursor on the target pane, but the subject is quite different (please read my previous post).

Thanks!
...

You started this thread with the following:

Is there any sound reason why .docx, .xlsx, ... etc. are considered archives by TC, and when I select an Office 2007 file and press Ctrl left or right arrow (with the intention of showing the same directory in the opposite pane) and see a whole list of files inside this archive?

So my answer is a solution for this problem

[oshizelly]

2Horst.Epp

You started this thread with the following:
Is there any sound reason why .docx, .xlsx, ... etc. are considered archives by TC, and when I select an Office 2007 file and press Ctrl left or right arrow

Sorry, not me, I'm not a topic starter pcitrus. My first post in this thread is located directly above your previous post. I only tried to continue discussing more or less relative subject, which pcitrus has started 5 years ago, but from the other aspect.

Do you mean, that I would have to create a new topic, not to try to continue this old one? As you can see, I'm a novice at this forum, so if you think me to do so, I'll be glad to follow your advice.
Thanks!

[Ovg]

oshizelly

as we have the same headache when trying to open Office documents via windows shortcuts (.LNK), or putting the full path in command-line etc. etc.

What is the problem? In opening appropriate program?

or putting the full path into breadcrumb

Yes, in this case file opens as archive... I still don't understand what the problem. May be my english is very poor - I'm sorry...

[petermad]

2oshizelly

as we have the same headache when trying to open Office documents via windows shortcuts (.LNK), or putting the full path into breadcrumb, or in command-line etc. etc.

Hmm, what happens if you try to open a .lnk file pointing to a .docx file (by "open" I assume that you mean doubleclicking or pressing Enter)? - here it opens the file in my Word Viewer as expected. Same thing if I transfer the full path of a .docx file to the command line by pressing Shift+Ctrl+Enter and thereafter press Enter.

You are right though, that if I cut-and-paste the full path of a .docx file to the Current Directory line (cm_EditPath) and then press Enter, then the .docx file is opened like an archive - but who would ever go to the trouble to do that in order to open the file in its associated program.

[Sob]

I have to agree with regular users here. :)

Personally I love to stick my nose everywhere I can (and sometimes shouldn't), so I don't mind TC treating everything that's internally an archive as such. But lets face it, it does not make sense for vast majority of users. Docx is an Office document and no one (few exceptions excluded and congratulations if you are one :) cares about it being also an archive.

IMHO TC should by default (and of course it should be configurable) recognize only archives with "official" extensions, so Ctrl+left/right (and possibly other functions) would open the archive if extension is .zip, but open directory like it does on regular files if extension is .docx (or others). Ctrl+PageDown would still work on everything, because the shortcut does not have other use on files.

[Sir_SiLvA]

IMHO TC should by default (and of course it should be configurable) recognize only archives with "official" extensions, so Ctrl+left/right (and possibly other functions) would open the archive if extension is .zip, but open directory like it does on regular files if extension is .docx (or others). Ctrl+PageDown would still work on everything, because the shortcut does not have other use on files.

NO Just NO
TC is a Filemanager after all and therefor should handle Archives as such not
treat them otherwise just because of some wrong extension.
Everything else just doesnt make any sense - people who dont know that docx is an archive will rarely if at all use TC.

@oshizelly:
There is no democracy here as in the end its all to Chris.

[leopoldus]

2petermad

Hmm, what happens if you try to open a .lnk file pointing to a .docx file (by "open" I assume that you mean doubleclicking or pressing Enter)? -

I agree with oshizelly. I use shortcuts that way too. I mean pointing focus on a shortcut (.LNK file) and press Ctrl+Left or Ctrl+Right in order to display and to point the focus the shortcut's target file on the opposite (target) pane.

You might ask, who and why for should do such operation. Well, it depends of a user's habits, right? Say, I have to do this operation at least several times per hour, sometimes tens and hundreds shortcuts one by one, so it is a real headache for me every time to give one extra click on keystroke to go back from within the archive.

You are right though, that if I cut-and-paste the full path of a .docx file to the Current Directory line (cm_EditPath) and then press Enter, then the .docx file is opened like an archive - but who would ever go to the trouble to do that in order to open the file in its associated program.

Imagine, that you need to locate in TC some file, which is found in another application, say, Windows Explorer, MS Office etc, or may be from some filelist. The easiest way to do it is copy the file full name and path to clipboard and than paste it into Current directory (cm_EditPath) field. Furthermore, some files search applications as, for example, Everything, Locate32 etc, can themselves send a found file's name to Total Commander, so that the focus in TC pane will point on this file. But as every TC could suggest, for archives, including MS Office 2007/2010, the focus will be located not on, but inside of the found office document

Well, actually you have the same problem with any archive. But the important difference is, that sometimes or even very often many users prefer to go straight into a ZIP or RAR archive. But who and for what reason needs to to go into an Office document file?

2Sir_SiLvA

Everything else just doesnt make any sense - people who dont know that docx is an archive will rarely if at all use TC.

It is far not a question of knowing something. Say, I do know, that Office docx/xlsx files are zip-archives by there structure. And it seems, that oshizelly knows this fact as well. However knowing this fact does not remove this inconvenience.

[Sob]

Don't get me wrong, I'm strongly against the direction of dumbing things down, but this is not the case.

TC is a Filemanager after all and therefor should handle Archives as such not treat them otherwise just because of some wrong extension.

As a very nice example, do you use .docx documents yourself? If you do, how often do you work with them as documents and how often do you need to dig inside them, as in zip archives full of chaotic xmls and stuff? And don't tell me you need the latter more, because there's no way I'm going to believe you. :)

... - people who dont know that docx is an archive will rarely if at all use TC.

I think you overestimate a very large number of TC users.

[petermad]

Well, as we see so far, there are reasonable grounds for this feature for some and not for others, so the action should be to make it CONFIGURABLE like suggested by karlchen

new INI parameter, something like DontTreatAsArchives=.DOCX .XLSX .WAR .EAR .JAR

IMHO this would be the most long lasting way, because many new extensions for archived files might turn up in the future.

The question is - should it be disabled by default, or should it cover some of the most common extensions like docx and xlsx by default without being written in wincmd.ini (if there is a DontTreatAsArchives parameter in wincmd.ini, then only extensions mentioned are included).

[oshizelly]

2petermad

The question is - should it be disabled by default, or should it cover some of the most common extensions like docx and xlsx by default without being written in wincmd.ini (if there is a DontTreatAsArchives parameter in wincmd.ini, then only extensions mentioned are included).

I would not regard it as a big question, far not that. Me (and supposedly the most of TC users) will agree with any solution. Let the default behavior remain the same, as they currently are, no problems - providing, that we will get an option to change these defaults according to our own needs and preferences. And it will be fine, if every user can configure the list of file extensions, which TC should treat as regular archives and which of them it should not.

Actually there might be another technical challenge here. Is it possible to code, that even if a user configures TC not to treat Office 2007 etc docX/xlsX files as archives while navigating in panes, it should however be possible to search text inside them.