[REQ] Drag&Drop copies by default

[karlchen]

Hi, margolis22.

Pointing out why the drag'n'drop behaviour implemented by Windows Explorer is inconsistent has got nothing to with throwing stones at anybody. It is simply explaining a plain fact.

Rejecting the idea of implementing the same contradictory drag'n'drop concept into Total Commander has got nothing to do with throwing stones at anybody. It is simply a logical thing to do.

If there are Windows Explorer features which need to be adopted by Total Commander then it should be those feature where Explorer does things better than Total Commander. Adopting its inconsistencies should never be an option. Not even as a configurable option.


About the drag'n' drop procedures of copying / moving implemented by T.C.:

As has been explained before, simply dragging and dropping will always copy.
Dragging and dropping with the shift key pressed will always move.
As some people seem to dislike touching the keyboard, drag'n'drop moving can also be achieved by pressing the right mouse key in addition to the left mouse key at the right point in time. (Please, look up the details inside the T.C. help.)

So T.C. offers a consistent way of using drag'n' drop for copying and moving. Using T.C. you can even do so without touching the ctrl-key or the shift-key.

So why the heck are some folks so keen on getting back the inconsistent Windows Explorer behaviour?


On the freedom of speech

Of course, you guys have got the right to promote the idea of introducing any Windows Explorer inconsistency into T.C. for the simple reason that you have got used to it.

But, please, note that the same right - freedom of speech - applies to me as well and gives me the right to oppose to such suggestions. Like a lot of other T.C. users, I am using T.C. because it is not like Windows Explorer.

To a certain extent, this constant struggle between Explorer fans and T.C. fans is much like the constant struggle between XTree fans and Norton Commander fans in the dark ages of MS DOS. The basic concepts of both programmes are fundamentally different. So our little struggle will go on as long as Explorer and Total Commander will exist.

Kind regards,
Karl

[Hurdet]

Those who want this feature do not want a war of religion between CT and explorer. D
D&D is not exactly like the feature because the explorer move because it only works with the same units and we would like to work with each unit.
We are not sorry for himself to move the hand between the mouse and keyboard but do so with repetition.
It does not seem very rational oppose a function only because it is marked by explorer, this is dogmatism

[Balderstrom]

@ alink - it's really not possible to force TC to perform like Explorer for the purposes of Drag & Drop.

Your options are :
1) Press the right-click button before releasing left click, that will do a move instead of copy.
2) Press shift before releasing left click.

In both cases you will see the mouse cursor change from (+) to (-) when doing a Move instead of Copy.

Alternate to pressing keyboard Shift -- Get a mouse that has more than 2/3 buttons. Personally I use the Logitech MX-518 and have assigned Ctrl and Shift to the 'thumb' buttons (they default to forward/back out of the box).

[Hurdet]

@ alink - it's really not possible to force TC to perform like Explorer for the purposes of Drag & Drop.

If it is a technical problem then is another matter.

Your options are :
1) Press the right-click button before releasing left click, that will do a move instead of copy.
In both cases you will see the mouse cursor change from (+) to (-) when doing a Move instead of Copy.

It is very good, I do not know.
Does very well in this way.
Ty.

[karlchen]

Hello, Hurdet.

It is very interesting that so far those who want Total Commander to adopt the drag'n'drop behaviour of Windows Explorer

• drag'n'drop on the same disk moves
• drag'n'drop from disk A to disk B copies
• ctrl-key + drag'n'drop on the same disk copies
• shift-key + drag'n'drop from disk A to disk B moves

have never tried to defeat the main argument against implementing this drag'n'drop behaviour and have never even tried to give reasons why the Windows Explorer drag'n'drop concept might not be illogical and inconsistent.
Well, the reason is pretty obvious, the Windows Explorer concept of drag'n'drop is illogical and inconsistent.

It is very interesting, too, that so far those who want Total Commander to adopt the drag'ndrop behaviour of Windows Explorer have not explained why the drag'n'drop behaviour of Total Commander is not good enough.

The strangest argument in favour of the Windows Explorer drag'n'drop behaviour which we can read in this thread more than once is this: people do not want to press ctrl- or shift-keys when dragging and dropping.
As has been explained, by using left and right mouse key you can use drag'n'drop in T.C. without pressing the shift-key for moving purposes. Dragging and dropping for copying purposes does not require a modifier anyway.
As has been explained, too, dragging and dropping using Explorer will require additional key presses.

Hence, from my point of view the arguments in favour of the Windows Explorer drag'n'drop behaviour are as inconsistent as the Windows Explorer drag'n'drop behaviour itself.

So the unanswered question still is:
Why should Christian implement the inconsistent Windows Explorer drag'n'drop behaviour although

• the current Total Commander drag'n' drop behaviour is consistent
• the current Total Commander drag'n' drop implementation does allow you to copy and move without touching the keyboard

Kind regards,
Karl
--
By trying to please everybody you will in the end please nobody.

[margolis22]

The premise behind my statement was merely 'to each their own'. If such an option was available for use then more power to each of you whether you would like to use it or not. I understand the functionality is and antiquated and illogical but that has no relevance on one's comfort level on using a computer and what they are used to. Personally I like the way T.C. is setup but for those who are newer to T.C. it makes sense to allow the user to control the behavior of the application based on their own comfort level. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but when someone is put down and berated for a suggestion then stones are being casted which is unnecessary based on everyone's freedom of speech. If you choose to disagree that is your prerogative but it should be in a professional manner if you will. I am not pointing fingers but if one read's through the entire thread they will see the validity in what I have said. Peace out.

[alink]

@ alink - it's really not possible to force TC to perform like Explorer for the purposes of Drag & Drop.

Your options are :
1) Press the right-click button before releasing left click, that will do a move instead of copy.
2) Press shift before releasing left click.

In both cases you will see the mouse cursor change from (+) to (-) when doing a Move instead of Copy.

Alternate to pressing keyboard Shift -- Get a mouse that has more than 2/3 buttons. Personally I use the Logitech MX-518 and have assigned Ctrl and Shift to the 'thumb' buttons (they default to forward/back out of the box).

Thanks for the answer.Will see what can be done via mouse.A confusion was made in that i thought this function is available but not enabled by default,that's why i posted.
I'm very surprised that it can't be done.
Karlchen i don't understand your posts .There is no main argement to defeat,if you would do the same things while at your PC as me you would understand .
I said what i do when i'm at the computer most,and that is moving ,sorting files,across one partition.
I don't even request TC behaviour to be changed,as i mentioned,i thought switching the function was there all the time ,and i required the steps.
THanks all for the answers ,will take a look at other File Managers and decide

[Balderstrom]

Unfortunately, Alink, some things in Total Commander wont change, even as an option. Even when users clamor for a feature, it may or may not see the light of day. It is clearly one of the disadvantages of closed source, single developer, software.

I use/prefer Opera over other browsers, and it has had a GUI display issue since 2005 that they refuse to fix for whatever reason. I highly doubt open source would fail in that manner.

[fenix_productions]

The real question is:
is it worth Christian's time to implement inconsistent Explorer behaviour even if it would be disabled by default.

For me, the sole reason of using TC is because "TC is not Explorer". It differs in many, many ways and has hundreds of additional features. Following bad example is not something I would really like to see. I know that some users might think about TC as "yet another Explorer" but this is wrong. Explorer behaviour has been cloned in many other file managers and I personally dislike them because of that.

I don't think I am alone with such thoughts. I even know few users who would abandon TC if it goes Explorer steps.

Once again: following bad examples is not the way to go. It's like saying that Firefox should have the same CSS box model as IE6 because IE is popular and someone likes that.

[Balderstrom]

I'm not saying this particular feature would be of much use to many, and didn't want to bring the thread offtopic by mentioning specific (other) instances.
Many features are outright shot down. Even things that would increase usability and are not difficult to implement. IIRC there was much more activity on the boards back when Icfu and others were still around, and it was common to get the response from Mr.Ghisler that X-Feature wont be implemented as he has no use for it personally, regardless that many users would prefer it as an option.

[Yuta]

2XPEHOPE3KA

But moving files from folder to its subfolder is quite common, but it requires pressing shift all the time.

Not really - try holding down the right mouse button while you are dragging and see how the cursor changes...

Thanks, I've been using Total Commander for many years (Since 4.54) but never discovered this, I always felt discomfort using shift for moving. To be honest, I did read something in some thread about switching fingers for moving but didn't catch up what they were refering to, I thought that the switch had to done simultaneously.
Now that you clearly said how the operation is, I understood how to do it. I'll give it a try to see how comfortable it is against using your other hand.

[Romko]

There should exist a means to change the default behaviour of Drag & Drop option to ‘Move’. Much annoying to press Shift each time!

[gdpr deleted 6]

There should exist a means to change the default behaviour of Drag & Drop option to ‘Move’. Much annoying to press Shift each time!

As has been said here in the topic before, you don't need to reach to the keyboard to do this. Using the right mouse key in conjunction with left-mouse-button drag&drop also works:

[...] As some people seem to dislike touching the keyboard, drag'n'drop moving can also be achieved by pressing the right mouse key in addition to the left mouse key at the right point in time. (Please, look up the details inside the T.C. help.) [...]

Simply do the following:

1. Start dragging with left mouse button.
2. Over the target, while still pressing left mouse button, hold down right mouse button. Notice that the icon attached to the mouse changes to a minus sign.
3. While holding right mouse button, release left mouse button to initiate move operation.
Extra bonus point: If you don't like working with two mouse buttons, you should have better bought a Mac instead