Seperate TC for Windows-x86 and Windows-x64

[yosi_tz]

Hello Total Commander team
Here I want to suggest something rather radical to overcome a Total Commander shortcoming.
As known, Total Commander doesn’t work well on 64 bit Windows’ like Windows7-64.
For example: After Installation’ when you search c:\ for Hosts file it doesn’t show it in c:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts.
To get the right result, you have to create cm_SwitchX64Redirection icon in the Button Bar and push it inside in. Well’ this is above the technical capability of an average user.
And this is just one example.
Also the submenu starting from X64 is confusing and not elegant. I myself and probably most of the users are not sure whether they should use the items inside the X64 menu or the same items in the origin menu.
I think I have a rather simple and complete solution:
There should be 2 separate installation programs:
One for Windows-x86 and the other for Windows-x64.
Like: tcmd756a-x86.exe and tcmd756a-x64.exe.
As a result, X64 submenu will not needed to exist anymore, the cm_SwitchX64Redirection command will be pre installed, if needed and the whole Total Commander will be much easy to use and much more reliable in search results and maybe other tasks.
Hope you consider this.
I think it is also a very quick-in-time solution to accomplish

Thank you
Yosi Shatz

[Sir_SiLvA]

Seriously is it asked to much to use the SEARCH or even look into the ENGLISH FORUM and read the STICKIES?

apart from the fact i dont know of any AVERAGE user that uses TC...
So yes a User who uses TC knows how to Press a Button and uses TCs Commands

[Sob]

Blame Microsoft for system32 mess on x64 Windows, they made it this way, not TC. And rather than playing with redirection, simply go to c:\Windows\Sysnative for real system32 directory. And if you stay patient for a little longer, native x64 TC is already on the horizon. :)

[m^2]

Blame Microsoft for system32 mess on x64 Windows, they made it this way, not TC.

True.

And rather than playing with redirection, simply go to c:\Windows\Sysnative for real system32 directory. And if you stay patient for a little longer, native x64 TC is already on the horizon.

Sadly, it doesn't work at least with XP / 2000 / 2003.

[yosi_tz]

Well any one can blame Microsoft but it will not fix the problem there is.
I thought that maybe, instead of 2 seperate installation files, there can be just one (like it is today) but one of the steps before the actual installation will be to set a parameter whether the Windows is x86 or x64.
You have to understand:
When somebody install a program he doesn't make prior homework and dig the whole forum to find there are problem in X64 systems and how to fix them. He presume that the basic installation of Total Commander with basic operation like search, will yield the correct results.
Also' as I said, the duplicity in Shift-F10 x64 menu and root menu is confusing.
You have to handle an installation that works with all the basic operation bot in Win-x86/x64 and not make the user to spend time on finding some cm_SwitchX64Redirection to fix the problem while warning him that activating this icon may set other problems.

thank you
Yosi Shatz

[Sir_SiLvA]

When somebody install a program he doesn't make prior homework and dig the whole forum to find there are problem in X64 systems and how to fix them.

Sorry thats what expected when using such advanced tools like TC...
And btw you made the mistake not reading that TC is a 32Bit application so its only your fault

[karlchen]

Hello, Yosi.

Please, note that there is a sticky thread covering the issues which Total Comander as a 32-bit programme will face on 64-bit versions of Windows: Windows x64: Explorer vs TC: Content of System32 different.
As a matter of fact this linked thread will point to a Total Commander WIKI article covering the problems and the workarounds.
So digging the whole forum in order to find this sticky thread is not really required. It can be spotted at the top of the English sub-forum.

As has been mentioned by other posters in this thread, Christian is working on a 64-bit version of Total Commander. Doing so is time consuming and not a very quick-in-time solution at all, because Total Commander has been developed in Delphi for the past 18 years now, and there still is no 64-bit version of Delphi available.
Cf. 64 bit version?, please.

Kind regards,
Karl

[Sob]

And rather than playing with redirection, simply go to c:\Windows\Sysnative for real system32 directory.

Sadly, it doesn't work at least with XP / 2000 / 2003.

Not by default, but with MS hotfix or user-created junction it does. And users of these systems usually know what's going on. I'd bet that 95% of these "oops, what happened to my system32?" (or better "where is my hosts file?" :) come from users who just got new Win7 x64.

You have to handle an installation that works with all the basic operation bot in Win-x86/x64 and not make the user to spend time on finding some cm_SwitchX64Redirection to fix the problem while warning him that activating this icon may set other problems.

And you should understand that the only proper solution is native 64-bit application. MS set some rules (or better limitations for this matter) for 32-bit applications on 64-bit systems. TC is making additional effort to give you something extra. If it didn't, you wouldn't have this "confusing" x64 submenu, but also an access to 64-bit shell extensions at all, because it's how it's supposed to be according to MS rules, 64-bit shell extensions are only for 64-bit apps. Similar with system32, only 64-bit apps are supposed to see the real directory. TC again tries to help you, so you can e.g. see "etc" directory in c:\Windows\System32\drivers\. Try that with some 32-bit text editor, the directory simply won't be there. And that's my point, you'll hit these limitations with any other 32-bit app, so it's better to know about them. Making special (still 32-bit) TC version that tries to hide it an pretends to work like 64-bit one would not help much.

[yosi_tz]

You may get me wrong.
I’m not talking about full polished 64bit TC, like the one Christian is working on. Developing it a long time run.
What I suggested can be done in about 2 days and it works!!
I use the TC in Win7-64 and have no single problem since I made the modification.
The mere thing I suggested was that it has to be done within the installation and thus there will be no need to have X64 sub-menu.
Indeed, TC is not a 64bit application but actually it works in 64bit Windows after doing the modification,
Sir_SiLvA, I know it may be difficult for you to imagine, but most of TC users don’t spend a moment at the forum. They still expect to get a fully working package even in 64bit and not wait till there is a true 64bit TC. That’s what I suggest.
Please don’t send me again and again to various links in the forum, I personally have no problem but the majority of TC users in Win-64 bit system have.
Wish to know what is Christian opinion.

Yosi shatz

[HolgerK]

What I suggested can be done in about 2 days and it works!!
I use the TC in Win7-64 and have no single problem since I made the modification.
The mere thing I suggested was that it has to be done within the installation and thus there will be no need to have X64 sub-menu.

I'm interested to understand your modification.
Did you really mean a 32 bit TC installation with

As a result, X64 submenu will not needed to exist anymore, the cm_SwitchX64Redirection command will be pre installed, if needed and the whole Total Commander will be much easy to use and much more reliable in search results and maybe other tasks.

disabled redirection and hiding the x64 sub menu is a resolution without any negative side effect?

While the first may be true if redirection is only disabled while reading and displaying the content of directories in (real)system32 path (by the way, it's not so easy to feed 32Bit shell extensions like Icon-, Thumbnail- or Tooltip-handlers or an external 32Bit text editor with the correct path in this case), the second (hiding the x64-menu) would also disable any access to any x64 extension.
Also if some shell extensions are doubled in the main and x64 sub menu, there are also shell extension which exists only as 32 or as 64bit implementation.
Afair there is also a differences in the MS property page of drives, if the property page is called directly as 32Bit or as 64Bit (Hardware tab?).

If this is really your experience and suggestion, sorry to say but i think this solution is too short (especially for an average user who rarely would search in system directories).
Only because you did not notice any problems, this does not mean that there are no problems.

Kind regards,
Holger

[Sob]

@yosi_tz: Personally I think that the problem you're trying to solve doesn't exist, or at least it isn't such a big one. I won't of course form any protest groups against your suggestion or anything like that. :) But since it's known for a very long time, I wouldn't expect any kind of hotfix release (= very soon) just because of your suggestion. And with usual frequency of TC releases, you might probably as well wait for native x64 version.

---

1) System32 directory is the only one affected by redirection. And users who don't know about redirection and sysnative (or creating junction) should not be messing with content of this directory anyway.

2) About x64 submenu confusion, yes, there might be some. But what can be done about it? Sure, some items are duplicated and it does look strange. But you may have 32-bit only shell extensions and 64-bit only ones. Trying to somehow combine them into one menu, removing the duplicates, ... it might work, but I'm sure there's some good reason why it's not done that way (to be honest, I never cared).

[karlchen]

Dear Yosi,

if you had taken the time to read the WIKI article which I had pointed you to, then you would have known that X64DisableRedirection is the workaround which brings along more negative side effects than all the other workarounds explained in the WIKI article. It should therefore never be used as the default setting.

While there may be situations on older 64-bit Windows versions where switching X64DisableRedirection on temporarily may be the only choice, there is no need for X64DisableRedirection on Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2 at all.

The idea of disabling the X64 menu is even less wise than making X64DisableRedirection=1 the default setting, because the X64 menu is the only way of granting access to 64-bit Windows context menu items to 32-bit Total Commander users.

From my point of view the only constructive solution to the problems which Windows 64-bit imposes on users of 32-bit applications like Total Commander is a 64-bit version of Total Commander.

Kind regards,
Karl

[yosi_tz]

Dear karlchen
I will read carefully the WIKI article "On 64-bit Windows versions, some files and folders shown by Windows Explorer are not shown by Total Commander!" and wait to the real 64-bit TC.
Think that concludes the discussion.
Thank you fellows

yosi shatz

[Flint]

System32 directory is the only one affected by redirection.

The only directory, but not the only file system object. \Windows\regedit.exe is also redirected, so that when you try to access it from a 32-bit application you get contents of \Windows\SysWOW64\regedit.exe (32-bit), while native 64-bit applications can access the real 64-bit \Windows\regedit.exe. Not that it changes a lot, but just FYI…