More Extra lines below cursor problems, this NEEDS to get addressed!

[Fla$her]

The full quote is:

The first sentence doesn't change anything at all. Throughout his message there is a direct allusion to the use of the mouse:

Then I double-click on a folder near the top of the current pane view, for example the 5th one from the upper pane border, to enter it. Then I exit it by double-clicking the ".." link.

This makes it literally a torture to browse folders one-by-one with a mouse like I'm doing, since it's first: confusing me, and second: causing me to move the mouse cursor from the very top of the pane (where I double-clicked the ".." link) to the very bottom of the pane to double-click the next folder. On a 32" inch monitor this is a major pain, causing an absurd amount of mouse travel as well as constant head/neck/eye movement causing strain, at least in my case.

I would like to have TC behave in such a way that if I clicked and entered a folder in the middle of the pane, then it should show it again in the same position in the middle of the pane when I exit the folder

This is what I am addressing in my post - and here he does NOT state that he explicitly wants to exit the folder with the mouse.

If a click is indicated, then it is obvious that the talk is about the mouse button.

But, if Perplexer only wants to use the mouse, he can use joe910's suggestion. If Perplexer has deleted his cm_GotoPreviousDir button, he an make a new one to exercise his mouse on.

I don't think the button on the toolbar is convenient to use for frequent operations. My suggestion with a side button is better.

[Perplexer]

I would in fact like to see this behavior fixed for the mouse-only use. If using they keyboard then it's technically not such a big issue. It's only "weird" for the first folder, if you enter it at the top of the pane and when you exit it, you find yourself at the bottom, but after that for the next folder down, you're pretty much at the same place in the pane when entering and exiting folders.

When using the mouse, the issue is, as explained in my original post, excessive mouse travel when entering and exiting folders since the folder that you entered at the top of the pane jumps to the bottom of the pane when you exit it, so you have to drag your mouse all the way down to click onto the next folder below it, and then all the way up to open the files inside it.

Using cm_GotoPreviousDir does exit from a folder and keeps the folder selected at the same place in the pane but the question is if I can use it in a way that doesn't interfere with something else. Having it up in the button bar would still require me to move the mouse up onto it every time I wanted to exit a folder (instead of going for the standard ".."), which is awkward. And it may cause some confusion when navigating through a linked folder since the command/button is not a "go to parent folder" but "go to where you came from".

My mouse thumb button is also already taken with a key bind to "Enter" which I often use to quickly exit a folder when ".." is already selected or open a file, instead of using a double-click (I find it faster and sometimes easier than a double-click which I sometimes miss). The other thumb button I didn't mention because I can't really comfortably reach it so I practically don't use it.

These are technically workarounds but I'm afraid they aren't really optimal for me.

I was hoping the actual TC behavior would be fixed so that exiting a folder would not cause it to jump down the pane. Would fixing this current behavior break anything? I tried using only a keyboard, went into the folder with 6000 subfolders, pressed Page Down key to get somewhere to the middle of the list and then pressed Enter to enter a folder. I then pressed Enter again to exit and the selected folder was at the bottom of the pane. Since I was using a keyboard, the next folder was just one down-arrow key press away so no problem there. But still, why did TC need to scroll it to the bottom and prevented me to see all the other folders below it? What if I TC simply remembered the position in the pane at which I entered the folder? Would that be wrong in any way or cause some other annoyance I'm not thinking of? If not then I think it TC should be fixed so it doesn't do that anymore. And "Extra lines below cursor" can then still take over when you reach the bottom of the pane for those using a keyboard. Those using a mouse can simply use the mouse wheel to scroll down and bring folders nearer to the top and continue and repeat from there.

[Perplexer]

For the time being I decided to set "Extra lines below cursor" to 60. I find that when browsing folders with many subfolders, I tend to scroll and bring the target folder I wish to enter to about 1/6th or 1/5th of pane height below the upper pane border, and the value of "60" brings it back to around that position when I exit it. It's far from ideal but I think on average it will be a little better.

[Horst.Epp]

What's the problem with the button for cm_GotoPreviousDir ?
It's a mouse only action and TC behaves like requested.
It comes back to the previous dir, and the screen and cursor position is preserved.

[petermad]

2Perplexer

Having it up in the button bar would still require me to move the mouse up onto it every time I wanted to exit a folder (instead of going for the standard ".."),

Maybe you could put the button as one of the first buttons in the Vertical button bar - that will almost be at the same place as [..] - but I admit - it is easier to click somewhere in th whole first line in the panel than it is to aim for the smaller button.

Don't get me wrong - I would not mind a better behaviour, but the question is - where should the folder be placed vertically when you double-click [..] or press BackSpace? - As it is now it is shown in the last line (+ the number of extra lines, if enabled), when the folder is so far down in the list that it is not visible when the parent directory is opened (with [..] visible).

Maybe it would be better if the directory was shown in the vertical middle in that situation - which would be much like your "Extra lines below cursor" set to 60 (if you have 120 lines in your panel), but it would be better if TC calculated the middle position.

[Perplexer]

What's the problem with the button for cm_GotoPreviousDir ?
It's a mouse only action and TC behaves like requested.
It comes back to the previous dir, and the screen and cursor position is preserved.

As I explained, currently I use the normal way of exiting the folder, which means moving the mouse cursor to the ".." line and double-clicking, or I just press my mouse thumb button (set to keypress "Enter") if the ".." line is already selected (much faster since I don't have to move my mouse cursor all the way to the top to hit ".." if I entered a folder at the bottom of the pane). This makes is fast to exit a folder but since TC moves the selected folder that I just exited to the bottom of the pane, that requires me to move my mouse cursor all the way from the top of the screen down to the next folder so I can enter it. And when I exit that folder, I again have to do the exact same thing for the next one, and so on.

Setting up the cm_GotoPreviousDir button would solve the problem of having to move the mouse after exiting to the next folder, but would then introduce a requirement to move it before exiting, having to aim for the cm_GotoPreviousDir button every time I wanted to exit it, instead of using the ".." link or even just pressing the thumb button. So I would only replace one problem with another one. And reprogramming the thumb button to the "cm_GotoPreviousDir" is not an option since I already use it for "Enter" (when exiting folders when ".." is already selected, confirming a rename operation when pasting in a new name, etc.).

Also, if I entered in D:\Utility\log which is a symlink to C:\logfiles\utility and then wanted to exit "utility", expecting to end up in C:\logfiles , that would fail as I would in reality be back at D:\Utility . So getting used to pressing the "cm_GotoPreviousDir" button to exit folders would not be an ideal solution.

[Perplexer]

petermad,

... but the question is - where should the folder be placed vertically when you double-click [..] or press BackSpace? - As it is now it is shown in the last line (+ the number of extra lines, if enabled), when the folder is so far down in the list that it is not visible when the parent directory is opened (with [..] visible).

Huh, didn't we already establish what the best position would be when exiting a folder? Or am I misunderstanding the question? When you exit a folder with a ".." double-click or with the Backspace key, the position should be exactly the same as when you entered the folder! Right?? Like, as if you were to use the cm_GotoPreviousDir.

In an edge-case scenario when you enter a folder via a symlink and then exit that folder via ".." or Backspace, it should probably show it at the top of the pane (feels most natural to me at least).

But currently it's not. So my question is why not ? What would be wrong if it was? Why does TC need to drop it down to the bottom or whatever "Extra lines below cursor" is set to??

It's the "Extra lines below cursor" that is causing this problem cause it's (by default) always showing the exited folder 4 rows above the bottom to suit those navigating folders with a keyboard, probably so they can see a "buffer" 4 folders below the one they just exited, cause if "Extra lines below cursor" was set to 1 or o (disabled) they wouldn't see anything (currently selected would be at the very bottom). But that could be done better. Why not make "Extra lines below cursor" work a bit different ... make it act as a "keep a distance from the bottom" value when scrolling with down-arrow button and not interfere with pane position when exiting a folder. That would still satisfy keyboard navigators and solve the pane scrolling issue when exiting a folder.

Maybe there could even be a special check mark option in settings, that if checked, would always position the exited folder at the middle of the pane.

So in short, I still don't see any argument showing that the behavior I want would break something else or cause some other kind of an annoyance.

[petermad]

the position should be exactly the same as when you entered the folder! Right??

That would be ideal, but what if you entered the folder via a CD command in a Button or the Directory hotlist, or a customized keyboard shortcut etc. - or via the Separate folder tree - that is: when you did not enter the folder from it's parent folder? Where should the folder you end up in when clicking [..] be positioned then?

BTW - not that it is an excuse for TC not being improved in it's behavior, but Windows Explorer behaves the same way and shows the folder at the bottom when you go back and the folder is positioned further down than the window height. That is for going back with both the left arrow button (history back) or the up arrow button (parent dir). At least TC handles history back better than Explorer.

[Perplexer]

the position should be exactly the same as when you entered the folder! Right??

That would be ideal, but what if you entered the folder via a cd command in a Button or the Directory hotlist, or a customized keyboard shortcut etc. - or via the Separate folder tree - that is: when you did not enter the folder from it's parent folder...?

That would probably fall under an "edge-case" scenario as I described in my last post. TC could display it at the top of the pane (probably most "natural" position). Since it wouldn't have a history of the position at which you entered it, it would have to fall back to some kind of a default position, and that might as well be top of the pane.

As usual, you have to ask yourself if there would be something wrong if it did that? Would it cause an annoyance or hinder the workflow. Only if it did that, would there be an issue, otherwise there's no problem.

When you navigate with a mouse, exiting and having the folder moved from top to the bottom of the pane IS an issue, because it moves it from under the mouse cursor. There is a correlation between "pre-entering" and "post-exiting" position. When using other methods there is no such correlation.

Or to put it another way, if after exiting a folder you end up in a folder from which you entered this folder, TC could simply remember the position of the pane and restore it. In every other case (like entering via a symlink and exiting via ".."), it could default to showing it on top of the pane. Problem solved.

[Fla$her]

2Perplexer
I believe that you are trying in vain to link the situation separately to a double click. In my opinion, the binding to the directory history should be observed, and the request should be made as follows: restore the position of the list when entering (in any way) the parent directory, if it coincides with the previous one in the history. I would support this approach in the relevant section.

[Perplexer]

Fla$her , so basically you're suggesting a rewording of this as a feature request in a separate thread, like:
"Make TC remember pane/selected folder position when entering a sub-folder from a parent folder and then exiting it". Something like that?

[Fla$her]

2Perplexer
No, not like that. When entering/exiting, this moment is already observed in memory. It's proposed to compare the working directory with the last one in the history at each change and apply a similar auto-scroll in case of a match.