[Bug] Total bytes indications

[XPEHOPE3KA]

2HolgerK
HaHa! B & C are the same! If there would be B then there would be C and vice versa.

C) 1 kB is equivalent to 1000 Bytes (1 MB = 1000 kB, ...)
And this would be the real revolution, because it meets human needs!

You mean to start use decimal in computer science? It is STUPID! Humanity "nearly needs" computers to work. When what you request would be done they won't work

Actually, let's just follow the standards... if the only thing is to change the language files - do it, Christian! If in some rainy day there would be a standard that no binary would be allowed in computers, no way! If THAT is a standard, it should be obeyed. People in IEEE and the like aren't complete numskulls.

[HolgerK]

2XPEHOPE3KA
Is this really your opinion?

Okay, choose B and be happy for the rest of your life.

For me the options A and C are more comfortable.

Kind regards
Holger

[SQUIRE]

It's an argument that will run and run as long as people insist on mixing terminology for 2 different number bases. There's an octal (DEC) vs. hex(IBM) fight in there somewhere in recent history too. I can usually deduce the implied base from the context, but it's more difficult to tell when 'b' is casually used. Is it bits or bytes they're talking about?

What say we adopt this convention:

[1] lower-case k=1000
[2] upper-case K=1024
[3] lower-case b means BITs
[4] upper-case B means BYTEs
[5] so too for the other prefixes

So, 1 kb=1000 bits, 1 Kb=1024 bits, 1 kB=1000 bytes, 1KB=1024 bytes and so forth.

BTW, I prefer my salary to be paid in KEuros, boss.

[XPEHOPE3KA]

[5] so too for the other prefixes

Have you read mentioned wiki article? It was said there that is impossible. There was also said that B already stands for bytes...

[HolgerK]

There was also said that B already stands for bytes...

Oh. I have forgotten this link: blue pill
B = blue pill

Kind regards
Holger

[Sam_Zen]

Is to change several strings in LNG hard? For you?

You're right, of course not. But I didn't meant 'a lot of work' for myself, but for Christian. I try to be rather reserved when asking for changes in TC. Lots of requests already. (I prefer the term 'suggestions', by the way)

I may be conservative, but I find it quite efficient to use the characters FF in a column to represent 255.

BTW the thing byte should be called correctly octet, because a byte is just a bunch of bits.

It is not correct to call a byte 'just a bunch'. A byte is in fact a binary code with a width of 8 bits (so octet indeed), a width of 4 bits is called a 'nibble', and a 16-bits code is called a 'word'. I dunno if there are words for 32-bits, etc.

And our talk began from differences.IMHO it based on cluster size and not to do with kilo/kibi. You may write a 1 Byte big file and it will occupy circa 4096 Bytes on your harddrive.

Exactly. Another variable playing a role in this, the cluster.. But it's on the background, because an empty .txt-file still says : 0 bytes

The first post from Sam Zen was about file size (in kb) and number of bytes shown in the status line (in bytes).

The other way around actually.

And this would be the real revolution, because it meets human needs!

Please, speak for yourself ..

~
I don't want to see this as a kind of growing competition between different systems of counting and the representation of the values. There is no 'the best'. Having a choice is enough. It means some personal freedom.
The difference between the M$ products and TC is, that the first one is looking for as less transparancy as possible, by offering preset automatisms, with possible controls as hidden as can be. While TC is trying to be as transparent as it can be, because it offers access to the basic controls, on an individual level.
The view of the layout, so also the representation of quantities.
And maybe mode 'show full details' isn't so detailed after all (Ctrl+F2). A plugin could add more resolution of choice here ?

[SQUIRE]

Have you read mentioned wiki article? It was said there that is impossible. There was also said that B already stands for bytes...

Yep, read the wiki. Wikipedia is collective opinion, a mass blog subject to anonymous vandalism, not necessarily fact - as its founder Jimmy Wales admits. After all the hoopla it has deservedly taken quite a bad beating for poorly researched data (read 'rubbish') of late so I'm wary of anything claiming to be the gospel truth there.

For instance it says the upper/lower case discipline cannot be extended beyond k/K but never bothers to explain why. Confusion with other units of measure? Not in the context of computers and bits/bytes, IMHO. If anyone thinks 1 mB means 1 metre of bytes, then they really ought not to be let anywhere near a computer.

I could be wrong but I doubt if prefixes kibi-, mebi-, gibi-, tebi-, pebi-, exbi- will ever catch on except by law in professional circles. They're just too clumsy to pronounce and write for the ordinary user (at least in English). I've never ever heard anyone say 'mebibytes' AFAIR - it just sounds like childish kid-speak!

I dunno if there are words for 32-bits, etc.

They're all still 'words'. Word-width is a variable depending on the architecture of the CPU and is usually related to the width of its registers. IIRC, the CDC mainframe had a word 128 bits wide.

[icfu]

For instance it says the upper/lower case discipline cannot be extended beyond k/K but never bothers to explain why. Confusion with other units of measure? Not in the context of computers and bits/bytes, IMHO. If anyone thinks 1 mB means 1 metre of bytes, then they really ought not to be let anywhere near a computer.

Standardization is used to minimize misunderstanding, that's why it would be complete nonsense to use a small m for milli in mm and for mega (decimal) in mb or mB.
This is what the Wiki article means with "cannot be extended" and it is absolutely right. Prefixes are expected to be independent from the units which are placed behind them and this is also the reason why it is nonsense to give the prefixes a binary meaning when bytes or bits are used and a decimal meaning when SI units are used.

If TC would offer decimal calculation I would switch AT ONCE, because for me it's complete nonsense to use binary prefixes when describing amounts of data, I am not a computer but a human, sometimes at least.

Icfu

[XPEHOPE3KA]

Standardization is used to minimize misunderstanding, that's why it would be complete nonsense to use a small m for milli in mm and for mega (decimal) in mb or mB.
This is what the Wiki article means with "cannot be extended" and it is absolutely right. Prefixes are expected to be independent from the units which are placed behind them and this is also the reason why it is nonsense to give the prefixes a binary meaning when bytes or bits are used and a decimal meaning when SI units are used.

All that could have been replaced with a single phrase
Mentioned standard is to remove any dependence on the CONTEXT, which was there regarding binary and decimal prefixes.

[SQUIRE]

2 icfu:

In an ideal world I couldn't agree with you more - of course it's ridiculous to use prefixes in such a nonstandard way. But we face reality where what we expect and what we get are often at odds. The undeniable fact is that the binary and decimal terminologies are already inextricably mixed in the computer world, has been so for decades, and all the hand-wringing by purists isn't going to make the problem go away anytime soon, if ever.

The suggestion to use the 'small' letters for the smaller value (decimal) and the caps for the larger value (binary) in the context of bits/bytes was merely a pragmatic attempt to keep the confusion within bounds. It's easily remembered but I imagine it'll be ignored too.

Anyway, let's hope the mixup doesn't extend to the Imperial and Metric systems - that results in your Mars Lander crashing on the surface rather than bouncing to a nice happy landing.

[petermad]

but a human, sometimes at least

[Sam_Zen]

2 SQUIRE
I'm afraid you're right about the deterioration in the wiki-development so far. It's a pity, because it's a nice concept.

If anyone thinks 1 mB means 1 metre of bytes, then they really ought not to be let anywhere near a computer.

It's a matter of the right interpretation according to the circumstances indeed. In TC "kb" will tell about filesize, in a text "kb" could mean a 'keyboard'.

The suggestion to use the 'small' letters for the smaller value (decimal) and the caps for the larger value (binary) in the context of bits/bytes was merely a pragmatic attempt to keep the confusion within bounds.

Very pragmatic indeed. Built on the mistake, to make the obvious connection between 'small' letters and 'small' values.
According to my settings, TC only produces a small 'k', still I can make a right interpretation, because of the given environment. If it would have been a 'K', I'll read it the same.

If there should be a difference between small and capital : the indication as value is not that important. The indication as unit is, to be able to read it. Most of the time the second character is the unit.
So I know, that kB has to do with an amount of binary data, while mF tells me the value of a capacitor.

And before adding a third character, I would always suggest to first investigate the possibilities of making standards out of the 'truthtable' of the two existing characters : kb - Kb - kB - KB .