Mastering Total Commander

[jb]

Sounds like an interesting project! Perhaps it would be better to use HTML instead of PDF, though. This could be an online help, like this one (experimental):
http://help.ghisler.ch/

Good start, but unfortunately the navigation frame containing the tabs Contents, Index and Search does not work with Mozilla V1.4.
I guess it works currently only with the Internet Explorer. In my opinion it is important that the final online help will work with all major browers.

[Maxwish]

It sounds very good! And don't forget to add chapter(s) about most popular plugins.

I guess we should easily assign this part of the manual to Maxwish!

Sorry, I think I'll pass on this.
As you can see on ClubTotal, the 'customize section' and the plugin descriptions are very minimal. I really enjoy collecting plugins/tools for TC and experimenting with them, but when it comes to writing, well, you know...zzzzzz

I still have to finish my Dutch translations for Andre Martin's plugins from a couple of months ago...sorry Andre....

[wanderer]

Good start, but unfortunately the navigation frame containing the tabs Contents, Index and Search does not work with Mozilla V1.4.
I guess it works currently only with the Internet Explorer. In my opinion it is important that the final online help will work with all major browers.

?! That's funny. Opera works fine. That's a first! Usually what does not work in Opera, works fine in Netscape/Mozilla. I've never seen it the other way around.

[Hacker]

Panos,
I volunteer proofreading it. I am not that familiar with customizing menus as you might think I am. I just wrote the tool. I am still using the standard mnu, though.
We already have something similar... remember bearfacts2.com/forum/ ? With all due respect to your optimism, I am afraid this project will starve, too.

Roman

[bheagle]

a quick note...

Great idea, but as you all probably know, I have yet to see two versions of total commander set up the same by any two users, I mean with the plug ins, and the other non-plug in programs I see being used and even suggested on this forum, How would you cover it all, the features are endless with the use of both plug and non-plug.

it would have to be a very SIMPLIFIED and BASIC document, simply telling users how to install these and how to use the built in features, or this could very well become WAY too big for users to find the info they need.

IMHO

[Jonas]

The Idea is great! But not as PDF only!
I like the Idea of an online document. It is quite easy to realise a php-middlet with an MySQL-Backend. If we seperate the content compleatly from layout it's also easier to maintain. And php can generate PDF's too. Out of a well struktured conent you could genereate nearly anything (PDF, printable HTML, HTML for online viewing, commpressed downloadable versions, etc)
Flexible translations are also possible and a powerful search according to the SQL-backend.
Personaly I like manuals with usercomments, like php or MySQL

[pdavit]

I don't just support the pdf format but unfortunately I don't have the knowledge for the suggested types (other than HTML and a simple conversion of a Word doc to pdf). What I'm working currently is in pure MS Word but the difficult part is to have the details written. From that point on someone with the know-how can I guess easily do the necessary conversions for other formats. One important issue though is to be able to have the manual available off-line as well.


2 Hacker

I've never forgot about that site. I guess you know how to copy-paste don't you!

[Jonas]

With a good php-UI the authors of the Manual don't need any knowledge about formats at all... it would be as easy to use as this messageboard.
And because php would generate in our case pure HTML you can just let php generate a .zip (or .tgz or what ever) with offline browsable HTML or a PDF.
(well, php isn't able to make word documents, but who cares? If needed with an effort even this could be realised manual)

[wanderer]

...I mean with the plug ins, and the other non-plug in programs I see being used and even suggested on this forum, How would you cover it all, the features are endless with the use of both plug and non-plug.

The whole plugins thing has become a very big mess. There are too many plugins out there, most of them very useful, but it has become very difficult to track and keep them updated in your PC (not to mention what happens if you're using more than 1 PCs ). I agree, it would not be a good idea to contain descriptions of the plugins in this doc. A small explanation on how to install them should be enough.

I don't just support the pdf format but unfortunately I don't have the knowledge for the suggested types (other than HTML and a simple conversion of a Word doc to pdf).

Well, it could be worked as a .DOC or .TXT by everyone and someone who knows what he is doing, would be responsible to convert each completed chapter to HTML or ASP or whatever.

[djk]

I agree, it would not be a good idea to contain descriptions of the plugins in this doc. A small explanation on how to install them should be enough.

Well, I think the installation process is easy and similar for most of the plugins (of course it should also be described including manual editing of wincmd.ini). Only some of the plugins need to do something more.

IMO, description of plugins should be one of the part of the manual because the plugins are very important part of TC. They expand the functionality of TC and make TC richer. As I rememebr even Christian said that he doesn't plan to implement some new functions because there are plugins which do the same.
So I think it's important to dscribe the plugins and the way how to use them.
As this would be only a part of the manual, you wouldn't have to read it. You could do that just in the moment you would need it.

[wanderer]

IMO, description of plugins should be one of the part of the manual because the plugins are very important part of TC. They expand the functionality of TC and make TC richer.

Ok, i thought my opinion was self-explanatory but i see that it isn't.

Creating a manual and putting descriptions of the plugins, explaining what they do and how to install each of them is a task that needs maintenance every week because you have at least 4-5 new or updated plugins per week. Granted, the maintenance will mostly be on the descriptions of the plugins because an updated version of a plugin may contain new features. That however means that every week you'll have to check and alter every new or updated plugin's info in the manual and all the users will have to re-download the updated version of the manual (every week! ). That's not a manual, it's a web page. If you add the ability to download plugins then you have nothing different than MaxWish's site!

I believe MaxWish has stated in another message in the forum that he doesn't put descriptions in the site because it's too much work but if someone is willing to do it, perhaps he will put them on the site, which IMHO is the best place for them. Imagine having to download the manual every week, search for a plugin in it to read its description and then search for it again in Maxwish's site to download it. Perhaps the only thing that must exist in the manual's plugins section is the address of Maxwish's site!

[djk]

wanderer
You are right the plugins change really often and... that's great... for us. -)

But if you've maybe noticed their main functionalty doesn't change so often. Of course in same case it does...

I hope that if the project starts... it will be never finished because even TC itself will be developed so... the manual will have to be still updated.

If the format of the manual will be open... it will be no problem to update it often. I think it will be even necessary because I don't believe that all people (willing to do it) will finish their parts inthe same time. And surely they will be correcting them many times.

Summarizing... let's stop to argue if it's reasonable
to do it. If somebody will describe the plugins... it will be good, if not... there is nothing to talk about.

[wanderer]

I hope that if the project starts... it will be never finished because even TC itself will be developed so... the manual will have to be still updated.

Yeah, if it starts and if the users keep it going... It's up to all of us but i must admit, it will take much more than good intentions.

Summarizing... let's stop to argue if it's reasonable
to do it. If somebody will describe the plugins... it will be good, if not... there is nothing to talk about.

Ok. The best thing would be to somehow inform and persuade all plugin developers to add a small file in the zips (.diz? .txt?) containing a small description of the plugin in a specific format. That way, perhaps Maxwish could run an automated script that would extract all descriptions and somehow show them in the site. Anyway, that's science fiction

[Jonas]

If the information isn't stored in a .html or .pdf but in a relational database, all this isn't a problem at all. You can say that you only want to download the main-section and listerplugins for multimedia. Or you get an update which contains only the changes from your last download.

And it's also possible that the plugins-authors could update the manual of thier own plugin thierselfs.

[pdavit]

My initial (and current) thought of the manual didn’t include plug-ins. As you can see I’ve titled this thread Mastering Total Commander and not Mastering Plug-ins for TC. It would be nice if we could have a chapter with general info about plug-ins like how to install them, where to find them etc. but I wanted this manual to be a source of information that will include using TC’s core functions as efficiently as possible based on users’ experience.

By the end of the week I’ll have the promised document ready for you to understand my approach. I’ve chosen the Directory Hotlist feature deliberately as it will be an example of how a fairly easy feature can sometimes not be used efficiently by a typical usage hence the term Mastering I’ve suggested here. It’s king of like buying a book for example about C++ that explains the language’s syntax and some basic examples (our TC help file) and buying a book written by experts on how to Master C++ with in depth details. Oh, well, you get the idea. Just hold your horses for a couple of days till I post the example. Following a philosophical approach can be never-ending but a living example is a totally different world!