File search and Diacritics

[tuska]

...
I should write
Everything found článek.txt during the search of clanek.txt, TC didn't.
And there was no file with the name clanek.txt

Here are a few more tests on this topic:
Total Commander also finds článek.txt (I think it was only up from the second search query).

Everything 1.5.0.1383a (x64)

Code: Select all

Search		Finds											Footer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
clanek.txt	clanek.txt, článek.txt									–
clanek.txt	clanek.txt										DIACRITICS

Total Commander 11.03 (x64)

Code: Select all

Search		Finds			✅ 'Everything' in TC		🔲 'Everything' in TC		EV-Footer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ed:clanek.txt	clanek.txt, článek.txt	    X				    –				-
ed:clanek.txt	clanek.txt, článek.txt	    X				    –				DIACRITICS
ed:clanek.txt	článek.txt  *)		    X				    -				-
			    *) The file clanek.txt was NOT in the directory (!), only článek.txt!

clanek.txt	clanek.txt		    –				    X				-
článek.txt	článek.txt 		    –				    X				-

My conclusion:
So far, I haven't been able to find any bugs.

[AntonyD]

2ghisler(Author)

If you just make a search without these prefixes and just check the 'Everything' option, TC will filter the returned files according to its own rules.

Is it possible to get a more detailed explanation about WHICH exactly TC rules will suddenly be applied here?
Because somehow, without explanation, it was believed that the presence of this checkbox simply includes
the use of simplest search engine in this external tool. And for most people this should be enough.
But if it were necessary to obtain some special search sequence, which is realized only when
using special ev-commands, then we use the prefixes ed: or ev: and these ev-commands.
And uncheck this checkmark!!!

And now it turns out that there are some "TC-rules" for this checkmark....

[ghisler(Author)]

TC rules mean that when you look for clanek.txt, it will find only that (either upper- or lowercase or mixed), it will not know about changed rules in Everything. The reason is that a search should return the same whether 'Everthing' is checked or not, but sometimes Everthing returns more matches (e.g. clanek.txt appearing anywhere in a file name).

[AntonyD]

The reason is that a search should return the same whether 'Everthing' is checked or not

If we are not interested in what an external tool can find in its database, then we probably just WILL NOT ENABLE
the option responsible for it and will simply allow ONLY the Total search mechanism to work. Isn't it?
And so IF we enabled this option - so definitely we transferred the difficulties of searching entirely to that tool - and
Total must only correctly recognize in the results, obtained from it, all suitable objects - separately folders, separately files.
+ it can apply the filter then with additional search terms, if any were included. On the corresponding tabs of the search dialog.

And of course, if some additional options are enabled in that search tool, then the end-user/client, of course, is aware of their
influence on the search results and he makes the decision himself are they needed or not. Total shouldn't cut them off on its own
just because THAT other tool is searching a little differently... The user kind of turned on this search to get this slightly different result.
Because the search in Total has already given him a certain result and it has not satisfied him! Therefore, it is necessary to give this
external tool the opportunity to distinguish oneself in such 'complex' search. And you completely deny it...

After all, what's the cardinal rule of search? Find everything suitable, and then, if the results are not satisfactory - to cover with filters,
reducing the volume of the found - and already among this to make the final choice. And it's all under the control of the user!
Not just by some internal rules.

[tuska]

TC rules mean that when you look for clanek.txt, it will find only that (either upper- or lowercase or mixed),
it will not know about changed rules in Everything.

The reason is that a search should return the same whether 'Everthing' is checked or not,
but sometimes Everthing returns more matches (e.g. clanek.txt appearing anywhere in a file name).

Thank you for your detailed information!

Additionally, with my settings in 'Everything' I try to get a few more search results rather than fewer.
If necessary, one can still narrow down the search results afterwards.

[AntonyD]

Does anybody know how to create a proper search field for resolving the next aim:
to find "bla-BlA" - case sensitive sub-string for file/folder names, BUT! to ignore,
do not output results for those files/folders - full filePATHS to which contain
"12.15._bLa" sub-string for ex. Also case sensitive.
And all search should be done on disk C:

pls, only for 1.4.xx build!

[Horst.Epp]

...
pls, only for 1.4.xx build!

It's possible, but I only run the 1.5 since its very first versions.
So no chance to check it.
What is your reason to stay with 1.4 ?
I would miss a lot of features and speed compared to 1.5

[AntonyD]

It's not mine - I just should provide any possible variants.
For some reasons person can't change a build of the tool.
SO any help is welcomed

[tuska]

Does anybody know how to create a proper search field for resolving the next aim:
to find "bla-BlA" - case sensitive sub-string for file/folder names, BUT! to ignore,
do not output results for those files/folders - full filePATHS to which contain
"12.15._bLa" sub-string for ex. Also case sensitive.
And all search should be done on disk C:

pls, only for 1.4.xx build!

Code: Select all

C: case:bla-BlA !case:12.15._bLa	(In Everything 1.4)
ev:C: case:bla-BlA !case:12.15._bLa	(In Total Commander)

Everything 1.4.1.1026 (x64)

Menu "Help" - Search Syntax - Everything
- Operators: !        NOT
- Modifiers:  case: Match case.

---

Windows 11 Pro (x64) Version 23H2 (OS Build 22631.4249) | TC 11.50b1 x64/x86
Search queries: Total Commander <=> 'Everything'

[AntonyD]

2tuska
I already tried this by myself - but this pattern does not exclude FULLPATHS which contain "12.15._bLa"
This "NOT" suffix looks like is testing ONLY the final object's attributes - file & folder NAMES.
But I must exclude PATHs to these objects which contain these chars!

P.S. Probably most important note: - I am searching the final objects on a disk!
So not a PATH, which contains "bla-BlA", but an end file (or folder) name which contains "bla-BlA"!
BUT to exclude properly found objects I must already taking into account exactly their FULL paths!
Which again means that their end names could match my criteria. But fullPATH - can not!

So I can't use "Match the Path" menu item turned ON (((

[tuska]

2AntonyD

I think I understand what you're trying to do.
Unfortunately, despite numerous attempts, I have not been able to find a solution.

If no user contacts you with a solution in the near future, you could try posting a request in the Everything forum.
A small test scenario would be highly recommended in this case.

[AntonyD]

It sounds incredible, but it turns out to be simple:
case:bla-BlA !case:path:12.15._bLa

[tuska]

It sounds incredible, but it turns out to be simple:
case:bla-BlA !case:path:12.15._bLa

I'm glad you found a solution. 

(I wanted to mention “Match Path” as a last resort, but I deleted the post after seeing your previous edited post).

[AntonyD]

But in any way - thanks for a coop-work! ) well done!