ini files and making all settings "relative"

[ebone]

Hi,
I'm having trouble getting totalcmd.exe /i=myinifile.ini to work.
It's as if totalcmd just ignores this command line option.
Any ideas ?

Also, I'm trying to get TC to run from a USB thumb drive (which it does just fine). I want to add several plugins however. Is it possible to alter TC's ini file to make the paths "relative" (a subfolder of the TC folder) so these plugins will work ... even if the drive letter shifts around ?

Thanks for any help.

[Flint]

ebone
Try /i=.\myinifile.ini
Relative path can be specified by means of %COMMANDER_PATH% variable.

[karlchen]

• Hint
  
  To get Christian Ghisler's explanation quickly, directly jump to this message
  and skip the largest part of this thread or just read through it all for your amusement.
  (Added 22.02.2005 23:32)

1. issue: /I=myinifile.ini

I'm having trouble getting totalcmd.exe /i=myinifile.ini to work.

Try /i=.\myinifile.ini

Nope, this will not do either, because /i=myinifile.ini and /i=.\myinifile.ini are equivalent.
They both mean, "Load the file myinifile.ini from the current directory.
And this is the problem, you do not know what the current directory is when you launch TotalCommander, unless you define it yourself.

Example
Let us assume myinifile.ini is located in "C:\Totalcmd\test settings".
Let us assume totalcmd.exe is located in C:\Totalcmd\V651.

Then you can make sure that TC uses myinifile.ini by launching TC with this single command line:
C:\Totalcmd\V651\totalcmd.exe /I="C:\Totalcmd\test settings\myinifile.ini".
Note: you need to specify fully qualified paths, because you do not know what the current directory is.

Or you can use a Windows link to launch TC and use a relative path specification to myinifile.ini by filling in the following values:
Command: C:\Totalcmd\V651\totalcmd.exe /I=myinifile.ini
Execute in: "C:\Totalcmd\test settings"
Note: Execute in will tell Windows to go to "C:\Totalcmd\test settings" first and from there execute TC which looks for myinifile.ini in the current directory. And there it is.

Summary
When using the /I= switch to tell TC to use a particular INI-file, the safest way to do so is by using a fully qualified path specification, i.e. /I="<Drive>:\<Full name of directory>\<name of ini>".
This is going to work always as long as you do not commit any typing errors.
Relative path specifications are a little bit tricky because they are relative to the current directory. So it is up to you to make sure you are in the right directory when TC is launched, else your ini-file will not be found.


2. issue: relative path specifications inside wincmd.ini

The environment variable %COMMANDER_PATH% which TC creates after startup was rightly mentioned by Flint.
Starting with V6.5x TC knows a number of additonal path variables which you may find in this message by ICFU

Hope this helps,
Karl

[Sir_SiLvA]

When using the /I= switch to tell TC to use a particular INI-file, the safest way to do so is by using a fully qualified path specification, i.e. /I="<Drive>:\<Full name of directory>\<name of ini>".

One doesn't need to write the full path if the ini is in TC's folder
/I="%Commander_Path%\<name of ini>" is enough for that

[Hacker]

/I="%Commander_Path%\<name of ini>" is enough for that

What is %Commander_Path%?
Hint: I was not started from within TC.

TIA
Roman

[Sir_SiLvA]

/I="%Commander_Path%\<name of ini>" is enough for that

What is %Commander_Path%?
Hint: I was not started from within TC.

Sorry but whats wrong with what I've written
I allways start my TC with "/i=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ini /f=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ftp" without probs.
Or do you wanna tell me you didn't know that this works

[Hacker]

Sorry, I was just proven wrong.

Roman

[karlchen]

A note in advance:
This post is about (in)correct commadline syntax, about the variable COMMANDER_PATH and about its (in)correct usage.
I have no intention whatsoever of offending anybody as a person. I simply do not have any reason to do so.
--

Sir_Silva wrote:

I allways start my TC with "/i=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ini /f=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ftp" without probs.
Or do you wanna tell me you didn't know that this works

This may work or may not depending on several factors which I am going to explain below. If it works for you then although you are using %COMMANDER_PATH% incorrectly, not because your syntax is correct.
If you specify a variable on the commandline it will always be interpreted and expanded by the current shell, never by the programme that you are about to start in your command line.
So your portion of the commandline will be expanded before TC comes up this way:
"/i=\totalcmd.ini /f=\totalcmd.ftp"
And this is what is given to TC as startup parameter, too. I doubt, however, that this is what you expect or what you want.

Sorry, I was just proven wrong.
Roman

No, Roman, you are not, as shown above and as I am going to explain.
You asked,

What is %Commander_Path%

Outside TC V6.x and outside the child processes of TC V6.x it is "", empty, undefined, NULL, does not exist, unless you define it e.g. yourself before you start TC. In this case, the value of %COMMANDER_PATH% depends totally on your definition.

But I assume that Sir_Silva is not talking about a system wide environmont variable COMMANDER_PATH which he defines himself, but about the TC variable COMMANDER_PATH which TC creates upon startup since V6.x and which points to the installation directory of TC.
Is this assumption correct, Sir_Silva?
So, for the moment, let us assume you are talking about and using the TC variable COMMANDER_PATH.

I just did the following test:
+ TC install dir: c:\programme\totalcmd
+ made sure a valid TC ini file named totalcmd.ini was in the install dir
+ No open TC instance, so "%COMMANDER_PATH%"=""
+ Opened cmd.exe
+ echo %COMMANDER_PATH% gave "echo is off" as was to be expected.
+ cd \programme
+ launched totalcmd\totalcmd.exe /I=%COMMANDER_PATH%\totalcmd.ini

If Sir_Silva were right then inside TC help => about should show that TC used the inifile in the install dir.

+ Yet, inside TC help => about showed that TC used the ini file "\totalcmd.ini"

This only proves what I knew before:
When I launched the command line "totalcmd\totalcmd.exe /I=%COMMANDER_PATH%\totalcmd.ini", the variable COMMANDER_PATH was undefined and it was expanded to "" by Windows, not TC, before TC came up.

So actually, Sir_Silva's command line syntax tells TC to use a totalcmd.ini in the root directory of the current drive.
So actually Sir_Silva's syntax does something quite different form what he thinks it does.

Yeah, but why then does TC come up and use the ini-files specified on the commandline using the undefined variable %COMMANDER_PATH% when you, Sir_Silva, launch your commandline?

Well, to tell this precisely, I would have to know some of the things which you did not tell us:
+ what is your current directory when you launch TC?
+ do you launch TC from a command line? What is the complete commandline?
+ do you use a Windows shortcut? what are the shortcut parameters specified?
+ do you use the parameter UseIniInProgramDir in your ini-file to override TC's default behaviour of where it searches for ini-files?

Actually, without seeing with my own eyes what exactly your are doing to launch TC and without actually verifying your TC installation, I could only speculate on why your incorrect syntax gives you the result you expect to get.
The most likely explanation is that on your system the variable COMMANDER_PATH is being defined correctly prior to launching TC, e.g. look at My computer => Properties => Extras => Environment Variables

I did not manage to get TC use the expected INI-files using your /I- and /F-options syntax. (And I did some more testing than the 1 example I explained here.)

But maybe, you, Sir_Silva, or someone else who uses COMMANDER_PATH when launching TC is willing to give me more details on what they do in order to enlighten the darkness of my ignorance and to see where I am going wrong.


Summary
I never said you had to use fully qualified path specifications when launching TC in all circumstances. I just said it was the most fool proof way. And I insist it is.

As for using relative path specifications, I never said they did not work. All I said was that you had to make sure that your current directory and your relative path specifications match.

As for using environment variables which I had not discussed in my previous post:
+ Outside TC and its child processes, the environment variable COMMANDER_PATH is undefined
+ unless you define it yourself prior to launching TC
+ If you use it one the commandline it will be interpreted and expanded by Windows, not TC.

If you launch TC using the variable COMMANDER_PATH and it works as expected, then
+ there either is a system wide variable COMMANDER_PATH
+ or you launch TC from a process which is a child or a grandchild of another TC instance
+ or some other peculiar circumstances on your system make TC do what you want it to do although COMMANDER_PATH is undefined.

And a final statement:
Inside TC the variable COMMANDER_PATH holds the fully qualified path specification to the TC installation directory.
(So using %COMMANDER_PATH% correctly and a fully qualified path specification to the TC directory are equivalent.)

Kind regards,
Karl

[Sir_SiLvA]

@karlchen:

Sorry I hope I don't dissapoint you, but you have written
so much text and you're as wrong as can be :p

Prove:
- Download http://rapidshare.de/files-de/657498/DummyProject.zip.html
- close ALL(!) TCs you have running
- start the demo with "DummyProject.exe %Commander_Path%"
- you see that Windows DON'T (!!!) resolve unknown vars

So, when I'm startin TC about a standard windows-shortcut with
Target: G:\Programme\TotalCmd\Totalcmd.Exe /i=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ini /f=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ftp
Execute in: <blank>
TC launches and translates %Commander_Path% into ExtractFilePath(ParamStr(0))
[ParamStr(0) contains on my System as you can guess G:\Programme\TotalCmd\Totalcmd.Exe]
And than looks for my IniFiles (as he should) in G:\Programme\TotalCmd\
Prove: What TC shows
http://img108.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img108&image=inifiles7ea.jpg

When it not works for you then something with your system must be wrong....

Edit - Conclusion:

If you use it one the commandline it will be interpreted and expanded by Windows, not TC

100% wrong (it will be ONLY interpreted if you start your dos box from within tc)
Yes Hacker you've been wrong (sorry bout that...)

Edit2 - Reason:
Windows doesn't know %Commander_Path% so it doesnt resolve the var
try my dummyproject with %temp% this KNOWN Win-Var WILL BE resolved

Edit3 - As Windows is very stupid %temp% = %TEMP%

[sgp]

My message isn't about COMMANDER_PATH, enough has been said
Just wanted to mention another option. In CMD.exe (COMMAND.com too?) the SUBST command can be used to alias a drive to another letter. Configure TC and all your startup batch files to use a fixed drive letter, say V:. Plug in the USB key, start CMD, SUBST the USB drive letter with V:. Start TC from CMD. Choose the drive letter V: so that you're sure that it's available -not taken by another drive- for use in SUBST.

[icfu]

@ebone:
When starting from USB stick all you have to do is put wincmd.ini in same location as totalcmd.exe and enter

Code: Select all

[Configuration]
"UseIniInProgramDir=7"

in wincmd.ini.

You can then use relative paths to your plugins in wincmd.ini.

If "totalcmd.exe /i=myinifile.ini" doesn't work either the path is wrong or you forgot to include quotation marks when path contains any spaces. Use "totalcmd.exe /i="myinifile.ini" instead.


Icfu

[karlchen]

Hello, Sir_Silva.

Sorry I hope I don't dissapoint you, but you have written
so much text and you're as wrong as can be :p

No, I am not disappointed. My girl friend is at work this afternoon. So I have got lots of time to get myself into trouble.

And I was not as wrong as I can be, just 50%. In fact, we both are 50% right and 50% wrong with respect to the question if, how and when COMMANDER_PATH will be expanded.

You are right as far as Exlorer is concerned. When you are using a shortcut to launch e.g. Explorer will pass unknown variables like %COMMANDER_PATH% to TC unmodified, i.e. as the string %COMMANDER_PATH%, so TC can and will interprete it correctly. (Your 50%.)

I am right as far as cmd.exe is concerned. I launched all the command lines from cmd.exe when testing, because I was too lazy to create shortcuts. And cmd.exe does interpret unknown variables like COMMANDER_PATH as "", so there is not much left for TC to interpret. (My 50%.)

Yet, I have to admit that I did not test thoroughly enough by launching TC from cmd.exe only, because obviously most users will use shortcuts and not the command line.
And it did not occur to me that Explorer might treat variables differently from cmd.exe.

- Download http://rapidshare.de/files-de/657498/DummyProject.zip.html [...]

Hope, you will be not too disappointed now. No need to download anything from anywhere to understand the shortcoming of my testing scenario.
Instead, just did what I should have done before writing my previous post, created a shortcut, put in the following command line:
C:\Programme\totalcmd\TOTALCMD.EXE /I="%COMMANDER_PATH%\totalcmd.ini" /F="%COMMANDER_PATH%\totalftp.ini" /N
and launched it. Inside the new TC instance Help => About proved you were right. TC thought it was using C:\Programme\totalcmd\totalcmd.ini and C:\Programme\totalcmd\totalftp.ini.

So, why should I be disappointed? I had a busy afternoon testing and writing. And now I learnt something which I had not realized before, Explorer treats environment variables in a different way from cmd.exe and does not try to interpret undefined variables.

Kind regards,
Karl

[Hacker]

karlchen,
Please don't use non-standard colors, if possible. They are unreadable for users using the Cobalt theme.

TIA
Hacker (Moderator)

[Sir_SiLvA]

karlchen, I have no idea which os you use, but at xp with sp2 you are 100% wrong...

plz try my test app no matter if you start it in a dosbox (not matter if cmd.exe or command.com) or trough a shortcut.
If win doesnt know the var ie %test% my app will ALLWAYS display %test% (as it should).

Edit:
Just for you I started VirtualPC and can say you are only 95% wrong
How should I have know that
1. someone is still using win98 for dos-scripting...
2. Win98 has a bug with Env-Vars
There - AND ONLY THERE - A unknown var like %test% is resolved to nothing in a dos-box...

Sure Ive proven you wrong as you stated

This post is about (in)correct commadline syntax, about the variable COMMANDER_PATH and about its (in)correct usage

telling that "/i=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ini /f=%Commander_Path%\totalcmd.ftp" be wrong but with a shortcut its absolutly doing what it should

That you must have time without end I see at the fact you're starting TC allways with typing in a dosbox

[OT]
@All who wanted to know size-differenz between delphi-compilers:
Dummy compiled with
- Delphi3 Pro: 187.392 Bytes
- Delphi 7 Personal:373.760 bytes [/OT]

[karlchen]

Seems this is not my day, first my tests were incomplete and I made a public fool of myself, sniff
Next I got publically beaten for using inappropriate formatting.
What is going to happen next?
Ghisler withdrawing my TC license key?
I guess I had better jump out of the cellar window asap.

Karl
--
P.S.:
Removed the offending color tags.