[TC 8.0ß6] Unable to save shortcut in some cases

[petermad]

2ghisler(Author)

You should get that warning, but the settings should still be stored!

Sorry I cannot confirm that. Here it works as I described - if I use the green checkmark I don't get any warning about the write protection, and the remapping is not saved.

If I just press OK in the main configuration dialog after having made a remapping, I get the warning that the wincmd.ini is write protected - when I press OK to that, the configuration dialog is surprisingly closed down, and the remapping it also not saved in this case.

This applies both to a write protected wincmd.ini with no redirection of [Shortcuts], or with redirection of [Shortcuts] to a file that is write protected.

[AndrewCreator]

Flint,

Hotkey will be saved after clicking OK in command selection windows.

[petermad]

Hotkey will be saved after clicking OK in command selection windows.

That's what I think too - clicking OK in the "Choose command" dialog should be enough, since you cannot change any command without going through the "Choose command" dialog.

It is not like before TC 7.0, when you chose the command from a selection box (dropdown list) - back then it was necessary with the checkmark to click on, when you had made your selection - but I don't think it is necessary anymore.

[Flint]

Hotkey will be saved after clicking OK in command selection windows.

I got that, but it's not what I was talking about. If you wish to customize several hotkeys you will hardly greet the necessity of closing and reopening the Configuration dialog after each and every hotkey. A less annoying alternative is, as I said, pressing Apply after each hotkey, but 1) Apply applies all the settings, not only the hotkey you defined, and 2) it's farther away from the area of hotkey definition and one would have to move mouse longer way to Apply and back to hotkeys than now, with the green checkmark just next to the command.

I completely agree that Apply and OK should save the current hotkey (if any configured), but eliminating the green checkmark button gives only drawbacks and no improvements I'm able to imagine.

[petermad]

If you wish to customize several hotkeys you will hardly greet the necessity of closing and reopening the Configuration dialog after each and every hotkey.

That is how it is right now, isn't it?

Take the situation where you want to make several remappings of hotkeys:

For each new hotkey you want to remap, you HAVE to click the button with the magnifying glass to open the "Choose command" dialog. There is no other way - you cannot write or choose anything in the Command field anymore - it is no longer a select box (since TC 7.0).

Then you find the command you want, and press OK in the "Choose command" dialog (there is no Apply button here).

This should be enough for TC to know what it needs to know - I don't see any reason why there also have to be a green checkmark button just to confirm once again the remapping that I have already confirmed in the "Choose command" dialog.

[Flint]

Ah, sorry. I did not read close enough and thought you were talking about OK in configuration dialog, not in command dialog.

But this approach contradicts to everything we have in Configuration by now. I met two different implementations of Settings dialogs in various applications/operating systems:
1) any changes are temporary, pressing OK/Apply is needed to save changes;
2) apply and save all changes on-the-fly, there's no OK button, just Close.

I don't want to argue about which's best, but currently TC implements the first approach. Your suggestion is closer to the second one. While I cannot tell which approach is better, a mix of them is definitely worse than any of them. The behaviour should be consistent across the application.

<Added>

I don't see any reason why there also have to be a green checkmark button just to confirm once again the remapping that I have already confirmed in the "Choose command" dialog.

By pressing OK you did not confirm the remapping, you just selected the command (confirmed your selection). At least, that's how I see it. It's name is "Choose Command", hence OK just confirms that you chose exactly that command, and nothing more.

To me, the command dialog is just an extended version of the drop-down list that used to be in earlier TC versions. Selecting of a command from the drop-down list item did not mean immediate confirmation of a new hotkey assignment, so why should selecting of a command in the new reincarnation of drop-down list confirm it?

Let's go further and open the buttonbar configuration. The Choose Command dialog is used there too. Should it automatically save the button after we pressed OK in the Choose Command? I don't think so.

[AndrewCreator]

Flint, I think no one should being afraid of making something better.

Current scenario:
1) Choose command.
2) Press OK.
3) Press green mark.

It is obvious that 3) action is redundant. Therefore we should try to find the best way to remove it, not the way to retain it.

Two possible scenarios:
1) Choose command.
2) Press OK.
3) Changes are saved immediately.

1) Choose command.
2) Press OK.
3) Changes are remembered but now written. After pressing OK in configuration dialog changes are written to the file.

[Flint]

AndrewCreator
Let's take another example. Suppose I want to change the language in TC. Current scenario:
1) Open Configuration -> Language.
2) Select language.
3) Press OK.
It's obvious that the action 3 is also redundant. So why does TC require pressing OK?

As I said, these are just two dirrefent approaches, each having its own advantages and disadvantages. Historically, TC implements the approach with explicit OK instead of immediate applying the changes. You wish to break all this and switch into the OK-less method? Fine, but why only in hotkey configuration? Why each and every other dialog continues to need the OK button, and this one and only place in the whole TC behave absolutely different? I just don't get it.

1) Choose command.
2) Press OK.
3) Changes are remembered but now written. After pressing OK in configuration dialog changes are written to the file.

Er… But it's exactly what TC does now, in beta-versions of 8.0, isn't it? Just in addition to that there is a green checkmark to allow you to configure several hotkeys without closing and reopening the Configuration dialog.

[AndrewCreator]

Flint,
>1) Open Configuration -> Language.
>2) Select language.
>3) Press OK.
>It's obvious that the action 3 is also redundant. So why does TC require pressing OK?

No, the action 3 is not redundant, because OK in configuration dialog confirms all made changes.

>Er… But it's exactly what TC does now, in beta-versions of 8.0, isn't it? Just in addition to that there is a green checkmark to allow you to configure several hotkeys without closing and reopening the Configuration dialog.
No, it does not. You can check:
1) Open configuration dialog — Misc.
2) Choose hotkey.
3) Open command selection dialog, select command and click OK.
4) (!) Do not click green mark.
5) Select another hotkey.
6) Open command selection dialog, select command and click OK.
7) Click OK in configuration dialog.

Command assigned in step 3) will not be saved.

[Flint]

No, the action 3 is not redundant, because OK in configuration dialog confirms all made changes.

Language was just an example. The same may be applied to all other settings as well, and in this case the OK button becomes useless.

No, it does not. You can check:
1) Open configuration dialog — Misc.
2) Choose hotkey.
3) Open command selection dialog, select command and click OK.
4) (!) Do not click green mark.
5) Select another hotkey.
6) Open command selection dialog, select command and click OK.
7) Click OK in configuration dialog.

Command assigned in step 3) will not be saved.

So, you wish that all the hotkeys were remembered that way. Now I see, it wasn't obvious for me. But in this case the interface becomes highly unintuitive from my point of view. Suppose, your suggestion is already implemented. I choose a hotkey Ctrl+F1, select some command, then suddenly remember that Ctrl+F1 is already used for Brief mode. I add the Alt modifier and re-select the command, but it isn't obvious that the Ctrl+F1 is actually remembered and will be saved when I press OK in the Configuration dialog. Maybe it's just a habit, I admit that, but many users will be confused with this behaviour, I assure you.

[AndrewCreator]

>Language was just an example.
It seems that language example is a bit different and cannot be applied to the problem which is being discussed.

>I choose a hotkey Ctrl+F1, select some command, then suddenly remember that Ctrl+F1 is already used for Brief mode.
You should try to do this. If you choose the already assigned hotkey you will immediately see the assigned command.

>Maybe it's just a habit, I admit that, but many users will be confused with this behaviour, I assure you.
Many users will be happy if interface become simpler, I assure you =)

And pay the attention that hotkey will be saved only after you press OK in configuration dialog.

[Flint]

It seems that language example is a bit different and cannot be applied to the problem which is being discussed.

Why? Please, name an option which could not be changed this way.

You should try to do this. If you choose the already assigned hotkey you will immediately see the assigned command.

No. If this is an internal TC command it displays just "Default".

And pay the attention that hotkey will be saved only after you press OK in configuration dialog.

Not hotkey, but all hotkeys, even those you don't see at the moment of pressing OK. That's not obvious from the user interface. And I personally don't like unobvious user interfaces.

[AndrewCreator]

Flint,
>Why?
Because there is no additional dialog in Language selection.

>No. If this is an internal TC command it displays just "Default".
Not the internal but default.

>That's not obvious from the user interface. And I personally don't like unobvious user interfaces.
It is unclear to press green mark every time. Because there are two buttons doing the same. According to your last statement you should not like it.

Again, do not be afraid of changing something.

[Flint]

It is unclear to press green mark every time. Because there are two buttons doing the same. According to your last statement you should not like it.

I do not. But at least it's more clear than what you suggest. Now the user see the button and can suppose what this button does, or look into help. In your suggestion there is no information to user that older (now invisible) hotkeys that he specified earlier are not dropped but remembered somewhere and will be saved when OK is pressed.

Again, do not be afraid of changing something.

Where did I say I'm afraid? I'm not afraid, I'm just against solutions which bring worsening of user experience instead of improving it. Add to your solution some indication of all the "remembered" hotkeys plus possibility to "unremember" some of them — and I will be totally for it. I would suggest such a change myself if I only could imagine how it is possible to display this list so that it was not annoying and at the same time could not be overlooked.

[AndrewCreator]

>Add to your solution some indication of all the "remembered" hotkeys plus possibility to "unremember" some of them — and I will be totally for it.

Nice! It seems we found the right way. Instead of criticising other member's suggestion we should try to suggest the better one.