What I hate in TC is...

[JJM]

Hello, I think that what counts before all it is the TC contents not the container....

[Leif]

Hello, I think that what counts before all it is the TC contents not the container....

Agree 100 %

[lzvk25]

2 Hacker

Quote:
1.- Default fonts MUST NOT be in bold characters.

That's a matter of taste IMO.

It is not a matter of taste, it is a matter of industry standards, and yes, unfortunately setup by Microsoft and a whole bunch of other big companies. And AFAIK the only software that uses bold characters as default is TC. How many times have we heard or read people bashing TC because it's interface looks like something for Windows 3.1 ? How many times we have to explain them TC's features and power ? Granted, those are dumb people, unfortunately they make a lot of noise and they lead other people away from TC, not to mention customers.

Quote:
3.- Add Pdavit's extended menu

Christian has a reason of keeping the menu simple. Take a look at UltraEdit's menu - it chased me away with its complexity and that I couldn't find some simple function I needed.

OK, how about making it optional, the default menu for beginners and pdavit's extended menu for advanced users ?

Quote:
4.- And finally, as an added bonus, two or three of the best plugins

Define "best" without insulting anyone.

The best plugins, IMHO, are the ones that almost everybody here use and we use them so often that we even think of them as if they were part of TC and not just a plugin. Many of those are already considered as "official" and listed in TC's main site, and finally we could make a poll about that.


2 Leif and JJM

I also agree that the contents are more important. Unfortunately, that's in the long run, it's the initial impression that makes at least 50% of the sales. In my company we use to say "Perception is Reality". Therefore first impressions are extremely important.

[titanium]

Unfortunately, that's in the long run, it's the initial impression that makes at least 50% of the sales. In my company we use to say "Perception is Reality". Therefore first impressions are extremely important.

I totally agree. It is very hard to change a first impression. A friend of mine, which I consider as the best computer expert I know, tried Windows Commander three years ago. After trying it for a day he told me "It's a nice program but the user interface is so old. I think I'll stick with Windows Explorer". It took me three years to convince him to try TC again - this time I installed it and changed the UI to resemble Windows Eplorer. Guess what - he registered it and never looked back again. Conclusion: Looks is important

[JohnFredC]

The requirements for credibility of anything... car, software, telescope, another person, what have you, change relative to our relationship to that thing.

For example: I build database reporting systems for a living. Guess what the difference is between the reports my software makes and the same reports my customer's analyst makes?

My reports look "better" than his. Content is identical, but my reports look like something from Fidelity or Morningstar... "his" reports look like they were half-assed typed on an old typewriter.

Guess which reports have more credibility with management (remember, content is identical), at least initially...?

Well the "pretty" reports, of course.

Eventually, management doesn't "see" the prettiness, but initially, it focuses their attention quite handily.

After one has become familiar with something, its "hidden" strengths become apparent and appearance becomes less important. This applies strongly to TC, which is "way" more useful than it looks, after you get to know it.

But I can't tell you how many times I show people TC and they respond so negatively to the appearance that they quit listening/looking and never take time to learn about its strengths. That's just the way most people are.

All this is moot if Mr. Ghisler already has enough business. My guess is that there are plenty of file manager customers to go around. But I would also venture to guess that there would be even more TC customers if the default appearance after installation was "prettier"...

[Hacker]

lzvk25,

It is not a matter of taste, it is a matter of industry standards, and yes, unfortunately setup by Microsoft and a whole bunch of other big companies.

I can't talk for everyone, but I personally prefer my personal taste over industry standards.

Roman

[pdavit]

2All

I'm not against pretty looks at all and this issue has been discussed over and over again in this forum.

But "prettiness" comes with a price. Actually with two prices. Can lead to slowdown in performance and
execution time, and (if not properly designed) can also make the GUI less functional. I'm deliberately
overruling the size implications since now TC is not distributed on a floppy.

So, based on the above I can only accept "pretty" additions to TC, if and only if, there is no major
performance and execution overhead and if aesthetical GUI changes are well-thought and towards improving
functionality and not purely looks. The argument of hardware advancements is I believe a selfish one
since we just cannot ignore users with slower machines.

Here's an example that comes in mind. Some time ago I asked Christian why he didn't support icons on menus.
His reply was that this will require to use a later version than v2.0 of the Borland Delphi compiler since
the one in use currently does not support icons on menus. He did actually some tests only to observe a
drastic performance degradation. Since I have memorized most shortcuts I rarely use menus only for "secondary"
functions that I do not use so frequently. So, I just wouldn't like to perform all my tasks slower than now just
so that when I sometimes use the menus I would see some pretty icons. Having said that, for new, inexperienced
and mouse-driven users, icons on menus can be a productive addition since the icons can be repeated on the button
bar and users can get familiarized with what each function do by visually identifying its icon.

The issue is probably more complicated than we initially think it is.

[JohnFredC]

users can get familiarized with what each function do by visually identifying its icon

Assuming the icons are reasonably representative of the functions they symbolize, of course...

But that's only part of the reason for icons on menus. There is a lot of research from the physical psychology and haptic interface guys that describes how (and how quickly) humans identify objects in the visual field. These issues are intimately connected with the hand-eye coordination used to identify and select an appropriate item from a screen or menu.

For instance, most humans can "tell" the time directly from an analog clock face faster than they can read the digits of a digital clock and convert them to a time value. In a related way, humans can identify a distinctive image from within a group of adjacent images faster than they can read a list of descriptive labels and identify the one that differs.

Identify doesn't mean understand, though.

Neophytes need to acquire understanding. For them, unless the symbols/icons used for menu and toolbar controls are particularly persuasive/powerful/standardized, it is better for them to read the list of functions presented by a menu and get an idea of "what's available".

On the other hand, experienced users already know, and mostly just want efficiency of selection and actuation. For mouse users, this is where the icons-on-the-menu thing comes into play. An icon (or some other distinctive feature such as a dot or a dash or separator bar) on a menu item can prevent me from having to read the menu item (or the entire menu), or count down 4 from the top, or whatever other inefficient method one needs when there are no icons. It is faster to distinguish the menu selection that has an icon from the selections adjacent to it that don't.

Of course, if ALL menu items have icons, that completely defeats the purpose. That's essentially the same case as no icons.

There's a balance somewhere (Microsoft Office has about the right mix of icons/no icons in its menu systems), but not having the ability to show at least some icons (in addition to the check marks) on TC menus definitely slows mouse users down.

Even if that slowdown is only 1/100 of second for only some of the menu selections I make, added up over the thousands of TC menu selections I make every year, real time is lost unnecessarily.

[pdavit]

But that's only part of the reason for icons on menus.

Well, yes, but it looks you are the expert over the remaining reasons!

That was an enjoyable read!

[jpgrosen]

2All
His reply was that this will require to use a later version than v2.0 of the Borland Delphi compiler since
the one in use currently does not support icons on menus. He did actually some tests only to observe a
drastic performance degradation.

I don’t believe that you could really detect the difference between a Delphi 2.0 app and a newer version of Delphi.
If the performance cost of pretty applications was that big, other file managers (that look pretty) should be slow. But they are not (at least not the userinterface).

Sincerely

Jens Peter Grosen

[pdavit]

I don’t believe that you could really detect the difference between a Delphi 2.0 app and a newer version of Delphi.
If the performance cost of pretty applications was that big, other file managers (that look pretty) should be slow. But they are not (at least not the userinterface).

Well, the comparison here was a fast compiled TC with a slow one and not a whichever compiled TC with a beautiful rival.

I never said that you cannot have looks with performance. I just gave an example where looks degrade performance but always in comparison with the same product in its striped down form.

[ymmv]

I absolutely agree that TC needs a graphic makeover so it looks in line with other programs of its kind. TC is a _very_ powerful piece of software, I've been using it for years now, first at home and now at work as well (we've got a 40 user license here). Despite that license, its very difficult to get my colleagues to take it seriously because it looks like it was programmed ten years ago. It looks like a Windows 3.1 app and because of this non-TC users who start it up for the first time blindly assume that it' function set hasn't been upgraded in years and dismiss it without any further thoughts. It's simply chasing prospective customers away.

We all know that beauty is only skin deep, but it's also true that first impressions matter a lot in the real world. And as it is, TC's first impression leaves a lot to be desired.

Apart from that, I'm getting the impression that Christian is sticking with an outdated development tool for the wrong reasons. It's great that the version of Delphi he's using is better at compiling small fast Win 3.11 compatible executables, but if that also means a lacking unicode support and an outdated interface, I'd say: upgrade and give us more features! I stopped caring about 16 support since the introduction of Windows 95 (I'd rather see 64 bit support) and I can live very well with a larger exe file that is a bit slower. I've long abandoned floppies and IMO any PC that's good enough for Windows 2000/XP should have no problem with a more resource hungry version of TC.

BTW What I still don't understand is why the Help menu of TC is at the far right end of the screen instead of immediately to the right of the other menus. Is there a deeper reason for that GUI inconsistency?

[SanskritFritz]

BTW What I still don't understand is why the Help menu of TC is at the far right end of the screen instead of immediately to the right of the other menus. Is there a deeper reason for that GUI inconsistency?

Are you speaking about the default position, or you do not know how to move it to the left?
For the latter: editing the WCMD_ENG.MNU, removing the HELP_BREAK row will do the trick.
Sorry if you knew this already.

[ymmv]

I was speaking about the default placement of the help menu. BTW Thank you for how to change this behavior, I didn't know that ! That's one of the nice things about using a deep program, you learn something new each day

[SanskritFritz]

2ymmv
My pleasure
You can find many alternative menus here: http://www.totalcmd.net/directory/lang.html