I need your help for tabbed browsing!

[norfie]

[CADweazle]

2norfie
Hi,

fine to see that we've finally got an advocatus diaboli.
But to be earnest: little bit lame arguments!

And about imo: IMHO everybody needs TABs (WARNING: ironie at work!! Hope you see the point: my <-> everybody)
I really try to speak only for me , and if other's have the same opinion - fine!

Greetings,

[Lefteous]

What do you think about the implementation of tabs in Opera?

I don't know Operas solution of tabs, because I don't use Opera (I had some trouble with several web pages)

Why don't you answer my question? You don't need to know Opera to answer it. Maybe you should read me posting again.

[norfie]

[norfie]

[Lefteous]

I don't know anything about implentation of "invisible tabs" or a tab menu. I suppose a tab menu is a other name of my temporary directory hotlist (window) only. But I'm not sure and therefore I don't comment this feature.

OK, if my description wasn't clear enough, here are some pictures:

(1)
Opera showing tab buttons. User pressed Ctrl+Tab (tab menu) to switch to another tab.
http://home.t-online.de/home/lefteous/images/tabbuttonstabmenu.gif

(2)
Opera not showing tab buttons. User pressed Ctrl+Tab (tab menu) to switch to another tab.
http://home.t-online.de/home/lefteous/images/notabbuttonstabmenu.gif

What I need is a specific function regardless a visual representation of this function. Tabs are not a my favorite solution.

I think "tabs" is a concept. Tab buttons is one visual representation, the tab menu is another. Everything should be able to choose a configuration of his choice.

[norfie]

[ghisler(Author)]

What about my suggestions?
http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=8733#8733
Especially rename, please! Otherwise what i'll se on the tab? C:\???????? or C:\A87F~1 ?

Rename is now implemented too! By default, the tab shows the name of the current directory WITHOUT the rest of the path, the same as e.g. the file open dialog does in the dropdown combobox.

I use MyIE2, there is a nice option to block some tabs, i.e. when I use "close all tabs" the "blocked" ones are not closed.

Blocking of tabs is now also possible. The following happens when a tab is blocked:
When trying to close such a tab, you get an error "This tab is locked!"
When closing all tabs, these tabs are left open
When double clicking on a dir in such a tab, a new tab is opened with that dir

- Will we be able to reorder tabs by dragging them with the mouse (as for instance supported in the editor of Visual Studio 2003, but not in Mozilla (1.3))

I haven't managed to implement this yet. It seems that the Standard Tab control doesn't support this. Since I don't have Visual Studio 2003, I cannot test how it is implemented there either, e.g. what happens when there is a scrollbox because there are too many tabs.

- Will we be able to drag a tab from the left pane to the right pane (assuming there are multiple tabs in the left pane)?

No, but in the right click menu, there is a command "Copy tab to other panel".

- In mozilla I very extensively use the option of 'middle-clicking' a link to open a new tab (and I have the 'load new tabs in background' flag set).

I will try that - but unfortunately the standard reaction of a Listbox to a middle click is to show a scroll icon - moving the cursor up and down then allows to scroll in the listbox without the wheel.

I have a Logitech mouse in which you can define the function of the middle button. I have set it to work as double-click. What would happen if i press it on a dir?

Settings in the mouse driver usually override the messages sent to programs, so all TC will get in your case is a double click. Since a double click on a Tab is undefined, nothing will happen (except for the tab being activated). Tabs can still be closed via the right click menu, though.

Why not using CTRL-D (directory-menu) and/or a drop-down Button like for the history command-line, to use a saved-TAB group?

Hmm, interesting idea. How should they be saved? I can imagine 2 possible ways:
1. User saves the tabs to a file, then uses opentabs filename.ext to load the tabs.
2. A command like cdtabs c:\dir1|c:\dir2
The second is easier to maintain, but has a limitation of 259 characters in total.

And - what about copying one file to selected dir's in different destination-TAB's?

Yes, this would look like a nice feature - but not so useful because all destinations would have to be opened first. That's bad for hundreds of destination dirs. I think that it would be better to implement it differently, like giving a list file which contains all target dirs.

At least: what about a pre-release-test-version for extensive testing

Sorry, it's still too early for that. I also don't like the idea of public beta tests, because file management is just too dangerous for experiments. The slightest error could lead to data loss.

IMO nobody needs tabs. icon_wink.gif
Tabs are only a (IMO complicated, space wasting) visual representation of temporary directory hotlist. Why we should choose a so complicated solution like tabs? KISS principle!

Don't worry, nobody will be forced to use the tabs. They will be invisible by default, and only appear when a new tab is opened. But they can be enabled permanently via the configuration.

[fabiochelly]

I'm in a hurry to use the tabs. I hope a beta version will be out soon

[Jonas]

- Will we be able to reorder tabs by dragging them with the mouse [...]

I haven't managed to implement this yet. It seems that the Standard Tab control doesn't support this. [...]

- Will we be able to drag a tab from the left pane to the right pane [...]?

No, but in the right click menu, there is a command "Copy tab to other panel".

All this should be easy to implement if you would't use the standard tab-controll but simple buttons, like Opera does or in this fake: http://www.jonas-baehr.de/forum/tabt-TC-2.png
btw: What is about icons on the tabs, defined in the hidden 'desktop.ini'?

Why not using CTRL-D (directory-menu) and/or a drop-down Button like for the history command-line, to use a saved-TAB group?

Hmm, interesting idea. How should they be saved? I can imagine 2 possible ways:
1. User saves the tabs to a file, then uses opentabs filename.ext to load the tabs.
2. A command like cdtabs c:\dir1|c:\dir2
The second is easier to maintain, but has a limitation of 259 characters in total.

What is about my suggestion to allow multiple-line-entrys in the Ctrl-D Config; handled like sub-menus. see: http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=8954#8954

IMO nobody needs tabs. icon_wink.gif
Tabs are only a (IMO complicated, space wasting) visual representation of temporary directory hotlist. Why we should choose a so complicated solution like tabs? KISS principle!

Don't worry, nobody will be forced to use the tabs. They will be invisible by default, and only appear when a new tab is opened. But they can be enabled permanently via the configuration.

But is it possible to use Tabs without showing them? Like Opera, Lefteous had made some nice pics of that...

[WatchUer]

- Will we be able to reorder tabs by dragging them with the mouse (as for instance supported in the editor of Visual Studio 2003, but not in Mozilla (1.3))

I haven't managed to implement this yet. It seems that the Standard Tab control doesn't support this. Since I don't have Visual Studio 2003, I cannot test how it is implemented there either, e.g. what happens when there is a scrollbox because there are too many tabs.

The well known webbrowser NetCaptor has the feature of reordering the Tabs by mouse's drag, maybe you can try it to see.(http://www.netcaptor.com)

The NetCaptor also has a checkbox option in its configuration: Display browser tabs on multiple lines. And I always enable this option to avoid clicking the scroll bar many times to see the invisible tabs.

[Lefteous]

But is it possible to use Tabs without showing them? Like Opera, Lefteous had made some nice pics of that...

I investigated Operas tab system using Microsoft Spy++. It uses one big frame control to display the content of the web page. And there is a tab bar. All tab buttons are placed into this bar. If the user don't want to see tab buttons the tab bar is set to invisible. A very simple but powerful solution!
Standard PageControl and TabControl are not very flexible: There is a button style, but this can be applied only if the buttons are on top of the content pages.

[CADweazle]

Why not using CTRL-D (directory-menu) and/or a drop-down Button like for the history command-line, to use a saved-TAB group?

Hmm, interesting idea. How should they be saved? I can imagine 2 possible ways:
1. User saves the tabs to a file, then uses opentabs filename.ext to load the tabs.
2. A command like cdtabs c:\dir1|c:\dir2
The second is easier to maintain, but has a limitation of 259 characters in total.

Seems it is the time to think about the wincmd.ini-concept.
Imo all the saved settings for [SearchIn], [DirMenu], [Selection], the MRT, [Command line history]... all the "user-created-entries" should be separated in a different - maybe called "TCUser.ini".
And of course - why not - an other one with the "packer-plugin-settings", according to the fs-/lsplugin.ini.
Benefit? The new TotalCmd.ini would only contain the default-settings for the behaviour of TC and could be read-only. (Very interesting for network installations of TC with limited user-rights).
And in this TCUser.ini you could create a new section.
Here I´d hope to see something like this:

Code: Select all

[TabGroups]
Group1=c:\dir1, c:\dir2, c:\dir3|d:\dir1;f:\dir2
Group2...

By this you could save tabbed groups with source|target side; leave one side empty and only source/target TABs will appear.
Good for you??
And the command cdtabs is a pretty good idea too - in addition, it shouldn´t be an either/or!!

And - what about copying one file to selected dir's in different destination-TAB's?

Yes, this would look like a nice feature - but not so useful because all destinations would have to be opened first. That's bad for hundreds of destination dirs. I think that it would be better to implement it differently, like giving a list file which contains all target dirs.

You´re right! Forget about copying to selected DIRs in TABs
If the TABs are saved (see above) we already have such a list! So the behaviour of this copying-variant should be, that the source-files would be copied simply to the selected TAB-dir - means multiple select of TABs by e.g. CTRL-leftclick is needed

At least: what about a pre-release-test-version for extensive testing

Sorry, it's still too early for that. I also don't like the idea of public beta tests, because file management is just too dangerous for experiments. The slightest error could lead to data loss.

- OKAY - hope you will remember all the co-authors of this inspirating thread for beta-testing

Greetings,

[jb]

The following is already implemented:
...
Several internal commands for tabs are available
...

I guess that these internal commands include the following:
cm_NewTabOpposite to create a tab in the opposite window with the current path.
cm_TransferNewTabOpposite to create a tab in the opposite window with the path of the focused directory/file/link (under cursor).
The path of a focused file without extension .lnk is equal to the current path.
The path of a link (= file with extension .lnk) is the path of the referenced directory/file.
Maybe cm_TransferNewTabOpposite is a somewhat odd name. In the Mozilla browser the most similar function is called "Open Link in New Tab" (mapped to the middle mouse button when mouse pointer is over link). Nevertheless I chose the name cm_TransferNewTabOpposite because TC has already similar commands called cm_TransferLeft and cm_TransferRight.

In this context I wonder what's the status of the following command suggested some pages ago, although not strictly related to tabs:
cm_TransferOpposite to transfer the focused directory/file/link to the opposite window.
I think cm_TransferOpposite would be more useful than the existing cm_TransferLeft and cm_TransferRight. Furthermore cm_TransferNewTabOpposite and cm_TransferOpposite would nicely supplement each other.

[bytalized]

At least: what about a pre-release-test-version for extensive testing

Sorry, it's still too early for that. I also don't like the idea of public beta tests, because file management is just too dangerous for experiments. The slightest error could lead to data loss.

I volunteer for beta testing possibly dangerous releases, since i can sandbox them (virtual machine), this also means I can test the functionality on just about every windows version that way without possible harm to my live data.
I use this extensively developing software myself to test new releases on all platforms